The Weemin

[PapofGlencoe]

10 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

All fair points and I'm probably hurting by being drubbed by England. Having said that there has been fairly widespread criticism of the way he's set the team up and the general lack of confidence. Incidentally I called him 'unimpressive', I didn't call for him to be sacked amongst other reasons I've no idea who would replace him. Hopefully he will turn it around, but I'm worried he won't. I'll be happy to eat my words if he succeeds.

Beaten by a fairly poor Ireland side after stuttering to the play off.

Scotland qualified for the world cup years ago and gave a good account of themselves against top countries.  They have undoubtedly not kicked on like other professional nations.

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Beaten by a fairly poor Ireland side after stuttering to the play off.

Scotland qualified for the world cup years ago and gave a good account of themselves against top countries.  They have undoubtedly not kicked on like other professional nations.

A good account of themselves?

played 3 lost 2 drawn 1.  The draw being a snatched from the jaws of victory by conceding a 94th minute penalty.    Bottom of the group.

[PapofGlencoe]

9 minutes ago, aaid said:

A good account of themselves?

played 3 lost 2 drawn 1.  The draw being a snatched from the jaws of victory by conceding a 94th minute penalty.    Bottom of the group.

Relatively speaking yes..

They nearly went through! 

I'd take being at a tournament over a six nil defeat at home anyday

[aaid]

32 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Relatively speaking yes..

They nearly went through! 

I'd take being at a tournament over a six nil defeat at home anyday

So you’re judging him on one game.  You’d have sacked Clarke after the Ukraine play loss?

[PapofGlencoe]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

So you’re judging him on one game.  You’d have sacked Clarke after the Ukraine play loss?

No, I'm not

No, I wouldn't have

[Shaundy]

Still, I can’t remember the last Scotland match shown on BBC 1 . Thanks for that 

[scotlad]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:41 PM, aaid said:

The Olympics in Women’s football is actually quite a big thing at least relative to men’s football.   Before the first World Cup in 1991 it was the only opportunity for international competition.

When the draw was made it was obvious that this circumstance was possible, quite why England, Scotland and Wales were not kept separate in the draw is beyond me.  It’s either extreme incompetence or seriously bent.

Fair enough, but even women's football has its showpiece events now. I can just about see the sense in Olympic football if it was limited to U23s, like it is with the men, in order to give younger players a bit of experience in tournament football, but I still think football is out of place at the Olympics.

I agree with you about the draw, it looks as shady as hell.

20 hours ago, aaid said:

You really think so?

This was the inaugural Women’s Nations League.  The seedings were carried out on the basis of team-coefficients.

Scotland had the lowest coefficient in League A, #16.  In fact they were #17 and only got bumped up because Russia invaded Ukraine.   A lot of that was down to Losa’s work over the previous year or so.

They were then drawn in a group with the #1, #6 and #10 seeds.   The four teams relegated?  The bottom teams.  

Add to that he lost his best player to injury for the bulk of the campaign.

If and when we get relegated from pot A in next year’s nations league should we sack him as well.

The reality is that Scotland - at men’s and women’s football - are not League A teams at the moment.  They both look like they are heading that way but sacking either manager won’t help anything.

Start a thread called “Sack Pedro Martinez Losa” now and let’s see if you look as ridiculous as kumnio once the Euro qualifiers start next year.

The difference is, Clarke has demonstrably taken the men's team forward. Martinez Losa has taken on a women's side who were on the way down and has so far shown little sign of turning things around.

There's nae shame in finishing bottom of a group containing England and the Netherlands but to get scudded 6-0 at home on top of losing a play-off at home to an average Ireland team (as well as getting beat 8-0 by Spain in the qualifiers, although they're no bad side tbf) is terrible.

If he was coaching the men's team his job would be in jeopardy. Berti Vogts got us to a play-off, lost embarrassingly, then got sacked a year later.

[aaid]

25 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Fair enough, but even women's football has its showpiece events now. I can just about see the sense in Olympic football if it was limited to U23s, like it is with the men, in order to give younger players a bit of experience in tournament football, but I still think football is out of place at the Olympics.

I agree with you about the draw, it looks as shady as hell.

The difference is, Clarke has demonstrably taken the men's team forward. Martinez Losa has taken on a women's side who were on the way down and has so far shown little sign of turning things around.

There's nae shame in finishing bottom of a group containing England and the Netherlands but to get scudded 6-0 at home on top of losing a play-off at home to an average Ireland team (as well as getting beat 8-0 by Spain in the qualifiers, although they're no bad side tbf) is terrible.

If he was coaching the men's team his job would be in jeopardy. Berti Vogts got us to a play-off, lost embarrassingly, then got sacked a year later.

These excessively high defeats occur from time to time in Women’s football, I’ve no idea why thats the case but it evidently does.

That said, you talking about scuddings from the team that won the World Cup six months ago and the team that they beat in the final.

[Hertsscot]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

These excessively high defeats occur from time to time in Women’s football, I’ve no idea why thats the case but it evidently does.

That said, you talking about scuddings from the team that won the World Cup six months ago and the team that they beat in the final.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that but it does seem strange that he's just got a contract extension when results haven't been great and performances have been very mixed.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm not disagreeing with any of that but it does seem strange that he's just got a contract extension when results haven't been great and performances have been very mixed.

Let’s have a look at those mixed results over the past two years - disclaimer, the world ranking is the current one, but hopefully you get the point.  For comparison Scotland are ranked #23

Defeats.

oct 21, Sweden 0-2, #1

nov 21, Spain 8-0, #2

feb 22, Wales (PC) 3-1 #29

apr 22, Spain 0-2 #2

sep 22, Netherlands 1-2, #7

oct 22, Ireland 0-1 , #24

feb 23, Iceland (PC) 2-0, #14

sep 23, England, 2-1, #4

oct 23, Netherlands, 4-0, #7

oct 23, Netherlands 0-1, #7

nov 23, England, 0-6, #4

Thats 11 defeats, 8 of them against teams ranked 1, 2, 4 and 7 in the world.  

There’s 13 wins and 4 draws on top of that.

Thats why he’s been given a new contract.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThistleWhistle]

19 hours ago, aaid said:

Let’s have a look at those mixed results over the past two years - disclaimer, the world ranking is the current one, but hopefully you get the point.  For comparison Scotland are ranked #23

Defeats.

oct 21, Sweden 0-2, #1

nov 21, Spain 8-0, #2

feb 22, Wales (PC) 3-1 #29

apr 22, Spain 0-2 #2

sep 22, Netherlands 1-2, #7

oct 22, Ireland 0-1 , #24

feb 23, Iceland (PC) 2-0, #14

sep 23, England, 2-1, #4

oct 23, Netherlands, 4-0, #7

oct 23, Netherlands 0-1, #7

nov 23, England, 0-6, #4

Thats 11 defeats, 8 of them against teams ranked 1, 2, 4 and 7 in the world.  

There’s 13 wins and 4 draws on top of that.

Thats why he’s been given a new contract.
 

 

 

 

 

 

What about his record in competition though?

 

WC Qualification 

 

Beat Faroese home and away

Beat Hungary home but we're completely pish lucky to get a winner in the 90th minute.  Beat them away.

Drew with Ukraine at home after we squeaked a 93rd minute equaliser meaning we were on the verge of third.  Ukraine lost to Hungary and us in a double header though where understandably they looked like they didn't want to be there.

Lost to Spain away by 8 which was the same conceded by Hungary and Ukraine combined.  The 2 nil loss at home was the highlight of the group.

Beat Austria at home after extra time and were billed underdogs despite there being only 2 places between us and we were at home. Could easily have gone the other way.

Republic of Ireland, ranked late 20s  next was up there with the shittest performance I've seen any team I follow give including Stoke ffs.

 

Nations League

 

Wasn't expecting much but it's completely different from Clarke as he went into Euro 20 qualifying with us ranked 25th.  Losa took over a side that had just been pot 1 ranked 10th.

England away - best performance by miles

England home - worse than ROI and sack should have followed given our sporting integrity had been called into question prior.

Netherlands away did orate but they're a class above and showed.  Home good gritty performance.

Belgium two creditable draws although their women aren't the same as the blokes.  Scotland and Belgium have about the same number of registered players and they've only recently ramped up.

 

Euro Qualifying 

 

Have to finish top 2 in league B - sacked if doesn't 

B1 plays B2 - sacked if doesn't get through 1st playoff.

Final play off - A3/4 team likely away 

 

We're not making the Euros with him in charge unless he's working down the ladder pulling more youngsters through.  Everyone else is ramping up development so standing still we'll go backwards rapidly 

Edited December 8, 2023 by ThistleWhistle

[scotlad]

Apart from Austria and Australia (in a friendly) I can't think of him achieving a victory against a team of note, and that's with much of the women's game still being part-time.

It kind of reminds me of where the men's team were under Strachan - usually beating the teams they're expected to but falling short when a wee bit more was required. At least Strachan had the excuse of leading a team that hadn't managed to qualify for a tournament in nearly two decades.

[aaid]

37 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Apart from Austria and Australia (in a friendly) I can't think of him achieving a victory against a team of note, and that's with much of the women's game still being part-time.

Apart from Spain, I can’t recall Steve Clarke achieving a victory against a team of note.  

[ceudmilefailte]

30 minutes ago, aaid said:

Apart from Spain, I can’t recall Steve Clarke achieving a victory against a team of note.  

We did beat Denmark as well. 

But we'll done for standing up for the women's team. 

Not sure why but we are in danger of getting left behind, although there is more money floating about now so hopefully we can get back on track. 

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

We did beat Denmark as well. 

But we'll done for standing up for the women's team. 

Not sure why but we are in danger of getting left behind, although there is more money floating about now so hopefully we can get back on track. 

Denmark who had already qualified and could not be knocked off top.  A Scotland team that could do no better of worse than finish second.  A effective friendly.

I think I’m very realistic with where both teams and managers are in term of their relative ranking, their strengths and weaknesses.

I actually think Clarke is a very good manager, I also think that his record over the last couple of years bears comparison with Losa’s. We’ll see how good Clarke is next year when he’s managing in League A, let’s see if he does better than Losa.  We’ll see if he can perform miracles.  

Let’s not forget that run of three defeats against England, Spain and France.  Most people reasonably gave Clarke a free pass because they were playing against top teams.

The only way to get better is to play better teams and to realise what you need to do to counter them.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Denmark who had already qualified and could not be knocked off top.  A Scotland team that could do no better of worse than finish second.  A effective friendly.

I think I’m very realistic with where both teams and managers are in term of their relative ranking, their strengths and weaknesses.

I actually think Clarke is a very good manager, I also think that his record over the last couple of years bears comparison with Losa’s. We’ll see how good Clarke is next year when he’s managing in League A, let’s see if he does better than Losa.  We’ll see if he can perform miracles.  

Let’s not forget that run of three defeats against England, Spain and France.  Most people reasonably gave Clarke a free pass because they were playing against top teams.

The only way to get better is to play better teams and to realise what you need to do to counter them.

We needed to beat Denmark to be seeded in the playoffs and the result in any competive match means something even if it is a dead rubber. 

[aaid]

50 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

We needed to beat Denmark to be seeded in the playoffs and the result in any competive match means something even if it is a dead rubber. 

Even more applicable to comparison with the Women.  One team in the final game with nothing to play for and the other with everything.

[scotlad]

19 hours ago, aaid said:

Denmark who had already qualified and could not be knocked off top.  A Scotland team that could do no better of worse than finish second.  A effective friendly.

They're still a top team though! They'd reached the semi-finals of the Euros and skooshed the WC qualifying group (outclassing us in Copenhagen).

Arguably Martinez Losa has relatively better players to pick from than Clarke too. Even Clarke's strongest team, with everyone fit, is likely to include two or three English Championship players, whereas most of the women's squad play in the WSL or in good leagues abroad.

[ThistleWhistle]

Nae looked great in this Pinitar cup thingy - will reserve judgement until the Nations League but lot of the same names playing.  Is there much coming through especially as Performance Schools include the girls now I think?  

[stocky]

Penalties now

1-1

On BBC Alba 

[stocky]

4-4

Cuthbert to score to win

[stocky]

She missed 

[stocky]

Sudden death.....noo

[stocky]

Oot 

 

Beat 

 

Missed last two....

Phukk sake 

[ThistleWhistle]

21 minutes ago, stocky said:

Oot 

 

Beat 

 

Missed last two....

Phukk sake 

Really don't know what to make of the games to be honest - injuries and players not leaving their clubs for this but both teams will have that. 

In saying that lot of familiar names whereas would have seemed a good excuse for some youngsters get a run out even if we got beat.  Corsie coming on to play centre midfield is a worry - surely we've got better than a lumbering centre back to plonk there when we need a goal! 

All seems a bit flat at the moment.