Seeing The Light

[Marky]

Hi Troops,

When I started a thread earlier today I said it was the first of only two posts I was going to post today. Unfortunately I felt the need to make one other contribution to that thread, so this is actually my third and I anticipated it would be my last.

I've been deliberately holding back from posting my thoughts. I wanted to make sure I didn't post anything in the heat of the moment that I ended up regretting. I also wanted to read everyone else's thoughts and contributions to help me come to my own conclusions. I'm glad I did that.

Like Ally Bear mentioned earlier in a thread, I too had vowed long before referendum day that in the event of a No vote I would renounce all connection to Scotland as a team in any sporting endeavour. I really meant football though. Despite enjoying sport generally when it comes to supporting Scotland, football is the only sport that is in my blood. My reasons for coming to that conclusion were obvious and have been well documented by others on here.

Anyway, jump to 4.30am on Friday morning when I eventually couldn't take any more and went to bed, I had one completely overriding emotion. Fury! Complete and utter incandescent rage at the 55. I mean blood boiling. When I got up two hours later (having not slept a wink) for work, that feeling had not changed. It wasn't until I was driving into work on my own that something changed. I think the rage subsided just enough to allow in a wave of gut wrenching sadness and disappointment and that was me in floods of tears. Stuck in traffic crying like a pussy, clearly looking like a complete tit and I cared not a jot. I just about pulled myself together in time for work where I did phuk all for the entire day except go through the TAMB fighting back tears. I truly believe (and I've thought long and hard about saying this) that outside of family life, this is absolutely the most devastating thing that has happened in my life. Nothing comes even close.

However, throughout all of this I was steadfast in my vow to give up all ties to supporting Scotland and anyone who knows me would vouch for how big a deal that would be for me. I was in absolutely no doubt.

I have even gone as far as composing a very long, very self indulgent resignation post from the TAMB. It would probably have bored the phuk out of everyone, but I thought phuk it, I've been posting on this board and previous incarnations for the last 14 years so I'm entitled.

However, two things have happened. The first relates to one single post. It's on page two of Flure's "My Apology" thread. It was posted by Grim Jim and it was a piece written by Wee Ginger Dug. I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of it. It was phuking heartbreaking but at the same time so full of hope. I'm on my phone and don't know how to do all the cut and paste pish so if someone would be kind enough to post it under this one I'd appreciate it. This post at least stopped me in my tracks.

The second thing was more a series of posts on here. Not the fair number of people who still had the same thoughts as my initial ones. I still respect those thoughts, I have to, but I don't think I share them now. Neither is it the blind faith type posts talking about football and politics being separate etc etc. I'm sorry but quite frankly I think that's bollocks.

It's the posts talking about us being the 45. About how we shouldn't let these unionist scumbags take our team and our dreams from us. Phuk them I say. Phuk every one of them including the ones on here. This will not be easy but I'm a passionate Scot and I phuking love my team and I'm phuked if a bunch of narrow minded spineless cowards are going to take them from me.

The England game will be torture, but phuk them as well. I accept that the toughest part is going to be the anthem and I'm still a bit at odds with that. The words are now a bit embarrassing, but if we apply the same logic, why should we let them take our song too. It still represents our hopes and dreams even if they have been dashed this time.

I'm 47 and maybe it's now unlikely that I'll see my dream realised, but I'm phuked if I'm giving up hope.

As we've always said in relation to supporting Scotland, it's the hope that kills you. Now it just applies to being Scottish generally.

Heids up lads and as I said, phuk them all.

[EddardStark]

I thought your utter scum thread was better.

[Doric]

Well said. The campaign will comtinue even stronger and we will gain Indy. SNP membership went through the roof yesterday I believe. I can see us the 45 being even more patriotic than ever now.

[thplinth]

I thought your utter scum thread was better.

Well you do post a lot of follow follow.

[scotsgary1]

Iam about your age and relate to what you are saying here.

Keep the faith man we will do this eventually in our life time mate.

[fishcumnock]

Change the anthem , scotland forever is more relevant imo.

[Marky]

Can I claim OP's privilege here.

Can I please ask that no one rises to Eddard's pathetic pish.

This was designed to be a positive thread.

[EddardStark]

Can I claim OP's privilege here.

Can I please ask that no one rises to Eddard's pathetic pish.

This was designed to be a positive thread.

granted

[Grim Jim]

You got me nearly greetin' there Marky

We're all hurting, but it's our team. It's not for us to feel embarrassed at the England game.

There's 90 minute patriots, and there's the 45!

[Marky]

You got me nearly greetin' there Marky

We're all hurting, but it's our team. It's not for us to feel embarrassed at the England game.

There's 90 minute patriots, and there's the 45!

That's us quits then Jim. You got me wi the Wee Ginger Dug thing.

Well said mate!

[Rossy]

Marky...all i can say is..'head up mate'.

There are hundreds of thousands feeling your hurt and pain. I'm slightly younger than you, but I feel exactly the same....I sat Friday morning crying like a baby.

I was awake at 4 this morning thinking about the blank paper we would have had yesterday morning to write Scotland's future...and how it would have energised the whole country for the next 2 years or more.

But instead, those that lacked the courage and inspiration won out. What a missed opportunity, and I suspect strongly that many who weren't brave enough to take that extra step will live to regret it.

However, and despite them, Scotland has changed forever. The good people with courage will make sure that change happens.

Leave those that are too embarrassed to actually admit that they were scared,....leave them to feel embarrassed about singing the national anthem.

Head up man, we're all in it together.

[Grim Jim]

Those with hope, talent and imagination. There's the 45.

I'm drinkin' again and spouting bloody slogans now

[tartandon]

I think there have been many of us who have been raging and in tears throughout the last 2 days.

Prior to referendum day, I had been in tears several times thinking about the possibility of us gaining independence.

Once the count started, I was in a state of numbness as the reality of the eventual outcome started to become apparent. Then when the counts started to get announced, this changed into anger rage. I trudged off to sleep at 5am before rising again at 7.30,having mustered 45 mins sleep. At this point, the sheer enormity of the sadness hit me and the tears flowed for a considerable time. Thankfully I had taken Friday off work.

I had somewhat recovered back into a state of numb disbelief within a couple of hours and just sat like a zombie watching the post-vote coverage.

Then Alex resigned, and the tears started flowing once more as I saw the only politician I have ever truly trusted step down.

Seeing some of the interviews from George Square throughout the afternoon helped me remember that there were many others who felt so strongly and the anger returned. Then news of the unionist scum charging on the Square broke, and I don't think these feelings of anger and rage will ever leave me. I'm going to hold onto this until we get independence.

I think each and every one of us is in the process of mourning just now and I think all of us who truly care about the nation will be affected by this for the rest of our lives.

I sincerely hope that the Tories wreak almighty hell down upon us as I think that is the quickest way for us to get another referendum, and surely that time the people of Scotland won't roll over and give themselves a collective kicking as they did on Thursday

[exile]

It really struck me today, what an opportunity has slipped.

As Jim Sillars (?) said, for a day Scotland held sovereign power in her own hands.

And what did Scotland do?

Hand it quietly back to Gordon Brown to pass back to Westminster.

[Marky]

Marky...all i can say is..'head up mate'.

There are hundreds of thousands feeling your hurt and pain. I'm slightly younger than you, but I feel exactly the same....I sat Friday morning crying like a baby.

I was awake at 4 this morning thinking about the blank paper we would have had yesterday morning to write Scotland's future...and how it would have energised the whole country for the next 2 years or more.

But instead, those that lacked the courage and inspiration won out. What a missed opportunity, and I suspect strongly that many who weren't brave enough to take that extra step will live to regret it.

However, and despite them, Scotland has changed forever. The good people with courage will make sure that change happens.

Leave those that are too embarrassed to actually admit that they were scared,....leave them to feel embarrassed about singing the national anthem.

Head up man, we're all in it together.

Cheers mate. Think I'm there now in terms of reconciling continuing to support the team.

Like everyone though, Friday is going to take a lot longer to get over.

[BlueBonnetsowertheBorder]

Hi Troops,

When I started a thread earlier today I said it was the first of only two posts I was going to post today. Unfortunately I felt the need to make one other contribution to that thread, so this is actually my third and I anticipated it would be my last.

I've been deliberately holding back from posting my thoughts. I wanted to make sure I didn't post anything in the heat of the moment that I ended up regretting. I also wanted to read everyone else's thoughts and contributions to help me come to my own conclusions. I'm glad I did that.

Like Ally Bear mentioned earlier in a thread, I too had vowed long before referendum day that in the event of a No vote I would renounce all connection to Scotland as a team in any sporting endeavour. I really meant football though. Despite enjoying sport generally when it comes to supporting Scotland, football is the only sport that is in my blood. My reasons for coming to that conclusion were obvious and have been well documented by others on here.

Anyway, jump to 4.30am on Friday morning when I eventually couldn't take any more and went to bed, I had one completely overriding emotion. Fury! Complete and utter incandescent rage at the 55. I mean blood boiling. When I got up two hours later (having not slept a wink) for work, that feeling had not changed. It wasn't until I was driving into work on my own that something changed. I think the rage subsided just enough to allow in a wave of gut wrenching sadness and disappointment and that was me in floods of tears. Stuck in traffic crying like a pussy, clearly looking like a complete tit and I cared not a jot. I just about pulled myself together in time for work where I did phuk all for the entire day except go through the TAMB fighting back tears. I truly believe (and I've thought long and hard about saying this) that outside of family life, this is absolutely the most devastating thing that has happened in my life. Nothing comes even close.

However, throughout all of this I was steadfast in my vow to give up all ties to supporting Scotland and anyone who knows me would vouch for how big a deal that would be for me. I was in absolutely no doubt.

I have even gone as far as composing a very long, very self indulgent resignation post from the TAMB. It would probably have bored the phuk out of everyone, but I thought phuk it, I've been posting on this board and previous incarnations for the last 14 years so I'm entitled.

However, two things have happened. The first relates to one single post. It's on page two of Flure's "My Apology" thread. It was posted by Grim Jim and it was a piece written by Wee Ginger Dug. I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of it. It was phuking heartbreaking but at the same time so full of hope. I'm on my phone and don't know how to do all the cut and paste pish so if someone would be kind enough to post it under this one I'd appreciate it. This post at least stopped me in my tracks.

The second thing was more a series of posts on here. Not the fair number of people who still had the same thoughts as my initial ones. I still respect those thoughts, I have to, but I don't think I share them now. Neither is it the blind faith type posts talking about football and politics being separate etc etc. I'm sorry but quite frankly I think that's bollocks.

It's the posts talking about us being the 45. About how we shouldn't let these unionist scumbags take our team and our dreams from us. Phuk them I say. Phuk every one of them including the ones on here. This will not be easy but I'm a passionate Scot and I phuking love my team and I'm phuked if a bunch of narrow minded spineless cowards are going to take them from me.

The England game will be torture, but phuk them as well. I accept that the toughest part is going to be the anthem and I'm still a bit at odds with that. The words are now a bit embarrassing, but if we apply the same logic, why should we let them take our song too. It still represents our hopes and dreams even if they have been dashed this time.

I'm 47 and maybe it's now unlikely that I'll see my dream realised, but I'm phuked if I'm giving up hope.

As we've always said in relation to supporting Scotland, it's the hope that kills you. Now it just applies to being Scottish generally.

Heids up lads and as I said, phuk them all.

[scotsgary1]

It really struck me today, what an opportunity has slipped.

As Jim Sillars (?) said, for a day Scotland held sovereign power in her own hands.

And what did Scotland do?

Hand it quietly back to Gordon Brown to pass back to Westminster.

Sadly you are right my friend.

We can take from this is never trust the BBC ever again.They ripped the pis* lets not forget that.

And most important Gordon is the biggest C**t ever

[JohnW]

However, two things have happened. The first relates to one single post. It's on page two of Flure's "My Apology" thread. It was posted by Grim Jim and it was a piece written by Wee Ginger Dug. I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of it. It was phuking heartbreaking but at the same time so full of hope. I'm on my phone and don't know how to do all the cut and paste pish so if someone would be kind enough to post it under this one I'd appreciate it. This post at least stopped me in my tracks.

http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/the-tide-goes-out/

The tide goes out

Sep19by weegingerdug

We stand on the shore of the sea loch, and watch the tide go out. Now is the time to shelter the flame of hope from the howling gale. No has won through fear and threats of loss. But the dream is not dead, the dream still lives within the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands who refused to be bowed by fear, who refused to succumb to the one sided stories of the self-interested. It is not a dream that will be forgotten. The flame of hope still burns within.

I’ve already lost this year. I’ve already had to grieve. But I will not grieve for Scotland, because Scotland still lives and hope still lives within me. I do not feel ashamed for the shame of others. Now is a time for building, for defending what we have built, for ensuring that the politicians keep their worthless words. We achieved so much with so little, we learned how to organise ourselves, and we must use those skills to maintain the pressure for change. I didn’t come this far only to give up now. It is only if you slink away that they will have won. We cannot go back into the shortbread tin. We have outgrown it.

It was always a big ask, to break through generations of apathy at the first attempt, to leap the prison walls of cynicism in a single bound. In the end we could not overcome the weight of a media almost uniformly opposed to change, and because of that a million minds remained closed and out of reach. We have a media overwhelmingly owned and controlled outside Scotland. A media that speaks for the established interests and is beamed into the shortbread tin, where it turns a debate on national self-determination into a warning about the price of car insurance. They ensured the debate revolved around money, and ignored morality.

For all Westminster’s talk of home rule, they’re keeping their paws firmly on the TV remote control. Now we all know why. It allows them to set the agenda. So we must build a new media, one that truly represents the diversity of this land and gives a space to Scotland’s voices, and take it beyond the internet, onto the TV screens, into the press, into every street, into every home. It must be owned and controlled within Scotland. We have work to do.

The Labour party must be held to account. No more can they claim to stand shoulder to shoulder with the poor and the excluded. No more can they claim to represent the working classes. No more will they leech moral authority from our struggles, sucking the life blood from change, managing the expectations of working class people. Labour is a creature of the bosses and the banks. It is the problem, not the solution. Labour cannot claim to defend us from the Tories after they and the Tories stood side by side. I will never vote for them again. Labour for Indy must consider their future. Perhaps it’s time for a new party of the left in Scotland. Independence cannot be the preserve of just one large party. It must be a broad based national movement, and be seen to be such. We have work to do.

I will scoff at the pride of those who are proud to be small, proud to be bullied. Proud not to think, proud to eat their cereal. And I will have the pride that comes from knowing that I stood with my sisters and brothers and dared to hope and dream of something better. The hoping and dreaming doesn’t end here. It has only just begun. A set back is not a death, a defeat is not annihilation. This is not the path over the mountain, but we have learned how to climb. We must climb to another path. We have work to do.

I have work to do. I must build a new life for myself. I must learn to be me after decades of we. But hope still burns within me. My life with Andy has left me strong enough to face the challenges that lie ahead, it gives me the resolve to build a new future. These past few months and years have given Scotland the strength and resolve to face the challenges that lie ahead. We will survive. We will flourish. We will strengthen our roots and grow.

No struggle for civil rights or reaching for self-determination achieves its goal easily. There are losses along the way. Take time to mourn and cry. Take time to grieve and weep. But guard the flame of hope within you, it is the cure for your wounds. It will see you through the dark nights. It will give you the resolve to go on. The future still waits for you, and it still burns bright with hope.

The tide goes out. The tide will return. Stand on the shore undaunted and unafraid, building for the future, and waiting the tide’s return. The high tide will come again. But we have work to do.

[1ANDYP]

Glad to hear it mark . I have been mega depressed myself but we have to stand strong together epacially in the face of the scum from last night. SFA have fucked up with the prices but I hope we can pack our home games out and have a show of unity and blow the roof off. Many of us done all we could to get a yes result and have no need whatsoever to feel embarrassed or inferior to any one on this planet.I was proud to be part of the yes movement and will now focus on bringing down slime balls like Margaret curran, jim murphy and the likes. We must look ahead, what,s done is done.

[scotsgary1]

Glad to hear it mark . I have been mega depressed myself but we have to stand strong together epacially in the face of the scum from last night. SFA have fucked up with the prices but I hope we can pack our home games out and have a show of unity and blow the roof off. Many of us done all we could to get a yes result and have no need whatsoever to feel embarrassed or inferior to any one on this planet.I was proud to be part of the yes movement and will now focus on bringing down slime balls like Margaret curran, jim murphy and the likes. We must look ahead, what,s done is done.

Far from embarrassment we can all hold our heads up higher than high this is our moment if like me you have wanted independence for years.

Keep the faith this is our biggest time ever.

I know we are all full of regret at the moment but our time is coming.

We will get US back believe

[Marky]

http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/the-tide-goes-out/

The tide goes out

Sep19by weegingerdug

We stand on the shore of the sea loch, and watch the tide go out. Now is the time to shelter the flame of hope from the howling gale. No has won through fear and threats of loss. But the dream is not dead, the dream still lives within the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands who refused to be bowed by fear, who refused to succumb to the one sided stories of the self-interested. It is not a dream that will be forgotten. The flame of hope still burns within.

Ive already lost this year. Ive already had to grieve. But I will not grieve for Scotland, because Scotland still lives and hope still lives within me. I do not feel ashamed for the shame of others. Now is a time for building, for defending what we have built, for ensuring that the politicians keep their worthless words. We achieved so much with so little, we learned how to organise ourselves, and we must use those skills to maintain the pressure for change. I didnt come this far only to give up now. It is only if you slink away that they will have won. We cannot go back into the shortbread tin. We have outgrown it.

It was always a big ask, to break through generations of apathy at the first attempt, to leap the prison walls of cynicism in a single bound. In the end we could not overcome the weight of a media almost uniformly opposed to change, and because of that a million minds remained closed and out of reach. We have a media overwhelmingly owned and controlled outside Scotland. A media that speaks for the established interests and is beamed into the shortbread tin, where it turns a debate on national self-determination into a warning about the price of car insurance. They ensured the debate revolved around money, and ignored morality.

For all Westminsters talk of home rule, theyre keeping their paws firmly on the TV remote control. Now we all know why. It allows them to set the agenda. So we must build a new media, one that truly represents the diversity of this land and gives a space to Scotlands voices, and take it beyond the internet, onto the TV screens, into the press, into every street, into every home. It must be owned and controlled within Scotland. We have work to do.

The Labour party must be held to account. No more can they claim to stand shoulder to shoulder with the poor and the excluded. No more can they claim to represent the working classes. No more will they leech moral authority from our struggles, sucking the life blood from change, managing the expectations of working class people. Labour is a creature of the bosses and the banks. It is the problem, not the solution. Labour cannot claim to defend us from the Tories after they and the Tories stood side by side. I will never vote for them again. Labour for Indy must consider their future. Perhaps its time for a new party of the left in Scotland. Independence cannot be the preserve of just one large party. It must be a broad based national movement, and be seen to be such. We have work to do.

I will scoff at the pride of those who are proud to be small, proud to be bullied. Proud not to think, proud to eat their cereal. And I will have the pride that comes from knowing that I stood with my sisters and brothers and dared to hope and dream of something better. The hoping and dreaming doesnt end here. It has only just begun. A set back is not a death, a defeat is not annihilation. This is not the path over the mountain, but we have learned how to climb. We must climb to another path. We have work to do.

I have work to do. I must build a new life for myself. I must learn to be me after decades of we. But hope still burns within me. My life with Andy has left me strong enough to face the challenges that lie ahead, it gives me the resolve to build a new future. These past few months and years have given Scotland the strength and resolve to face the challenges that lie ahead. We will survive. We will flourish. We will strengthen our roots and grow.

No struggle for civil rights or reaching for self-determination achieves its goal easily. There are losses along the way. Take time to mourn and cry. Take time to grieve and weep. But guard the flame of hope within you, it is the cure for your wounds. It will see you through the dark nights. It will give you the resolve to go on. The future still waits for you, and it still burns bright with hope.

The tide goes out. The tide will return. Stand on the shore undaunted and unafraid, building for the future, and waiting the tides return. The high tide will come again. But we have work to do.

Cheers John.

[Flora MaDonald]

I can honestly say I've never cried as much in the last 2 days, and now I've nae fags left. Is there nae justice?

[Mindimoo]

and now I've nae fags left. Is there nae justice?

That's harsh man, harsh.

[Marky]

I can honestly say I've never cried as much in the last 2 days, and now I've nae fags left. Is there nae justice?

God love ye son. Have ye no got any doubts ye could cobble intae a rolly?

I feel responsible.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Marky

[Flora MaDonald]

Operation dout now underway