Strachan must stay thread

[andyD]

11 minutes ago, Tartacus said:

 If we somehow do manage to win tonight then that would surely be the end of Slovakia's chances of 2nd place?  

Their manage has said as much.

If we were to lose the next two.. which could happen, they're both difficult games against teams with players much better than ours.. then the table will likely look like...

12 england
7 slovenia
6 slovakia
5 lithuania
4 scotland
0 malta

for fairness we should probably add the march game so we're at the half way stage.
we should beat slovenia at home.
lithuania lose to england and slovakia beat malta.

15 england
9 slovakia
7 slovenia
7 scotland
5 lithuania
0 malta

So 2 points off in that scenario. I'm not sure it's disastrous enough to warrant sacking Strachan. A draw tonight and it's absolutely everything to play for, we'll likely still be 2nd on goal difference.

[scotlad]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

we rank 73 places above them and have a decent record against them, we were/are a pot 3 side and they are pot 5. With the players at our disposal and the level they play at when compared to the Lithuania side, we should have beaten them.

I agree, we should have expected to have won on Saturday.  We were, rightly, favourites to win and with a bit more luck we might have.  I don't think it was quite as shocking a result as if we'd drawn against Malta, for instance.

But as for the calibre of our players, most of them play for lower end EPL sides or in the English Championship (or not, in Grant Hanley's case).  We don't have players who play regularly for the top clubs in Europe.  The standard many of our guys play at isn't that much higher than Lithuania's play at.  It shouldn't be that shocking that players who play for Hull or Sheffield Wednesday often don't look that impressive on the international stage.

[Parklife]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

Exactly.  We have had 8 managers since we last qualified for a tournament (including caretakers) but the overall standard of player hasn't really improved over that period of time.  Some people don't seem to realise, or aren't willing to accept, that we are just a very average international football team.  In fairness so are Lithuania, but they are not so far behind us that Saturday's result ought to have been a complete shock.

 

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

we rank 73 places above them and have a decent record against them, we were/are a pot 3 side and they are pot 5. With the players at our disposal and the level they play at when compared to the Lithuania side, we should have beaten them.

Excellent response, Vanderark. 

45 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I agree, we should have expected to have won on Saturday.  We were, rightly, favourites to win and with a bit more luck we might have.  I don't think it was quite as shocking a result as if we'd drawn against Malta, for instance.

But as for the calibre of our players, most of them play for lower end EPL sides or in the English Championship (or not, in Grant Hanley's case).  We don't have players who play regularly for the top clubs in Europe.  The standard many of our guys play at isn't that much higher than Lithuania's play at.  It shouldn't be that shocking that players who play for Hull or Sheffield Wednesday often don't look that impressive on the international stage.

You're really going for the "but all our players are shite" routine that Strachan uses? Was pretty sure you were smarter than that. 

The Lithuanian squad predominantly play in the Lithuanian league, a few in Latvia, their captain in Poland, one in the Bundesliga 2 and that's about it. We have a squad of players who play at a far higher level. However, it looks like their manager knows how to set up his team and motivate them, where as ours doesn't. Not one person is claiming we have world beating players. We're simply saying that our team currently equals less than the sum of it's parts. 

It's monumentally frustrating to see teams with lesser players out play us (like Lithuania), or with players that are no better than ours qualify for major tournaments (Northern Ireland, Wales,  RoI, etc) then see folk say "we don't have the players". We blooming well do! Northern Ireland got to the last 16 in the Euros and they play Josh fecking Magennis in their team. 

[Orraloon]

15 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Beat Croatia twice . . 

They were friendlies. Well, they were for us anyway. As was the game in Faro. If we are already out of the competition they shouldn't be counted as competitive games.

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, Orraloon said:

They were friendlies. Well, they were for us anyway. As was the game in Faro. If we are already out of the competition they shouldn't be counted as competitive games.

Seems harsh, especially Croatia away when they needed the win but I see your point.

Good result and performance needed tonight.

[Larky Masher]

His acceptance that we are simply playing for second place in the group is unacceptable.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Larky Masher

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, Larky Masher said:

His acceptance that we are simply playing for second place in the group is unacceptable.

Agreed. It's embarrassing actually. Especially at this stage of the group. 

[andyD]

9 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It's monumentally frustrating to see teams with lesser players out play us (like Lithuania),

Lithuania outplayed us? Were we watching different games? We didn't play well, struggled in the first half to get any rhythm going, but we cut thru them in the 2nd with chance after chance, while they had one decent chance that they scored. When did they outplay us?

[Larky Masher]

Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

Agreed. It's embarrassing actually. Especially at this stage of the group. 

And given how ordinary England are.

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, andyD said:

Who was the last manager to say "this is a must win game"? Outside of a situation where we actually needed to win or we were mathematically eliminated? Are we just beating Strachan up for doing exactly what every manager in the world would does?

And looking at it now, with the way the group is set up at the moment.. was it a must win game? Doesn't look like it to me. We're 2nd in the group, 4 points ahead of the team we expect to by vying for 2nd with come the end of qualification. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be 6 points ahead of them, but did we expect to have a 4 point lead over them at this point? I don't think anyone here did. 3 was the best case scenario, with us winning 2 games and them losing to england. we're currently better than the best anyone would have expected. I know it sounds ridiculous, but that's how the group is right now. Calm down.. see what tonight brings. Of course I'd like to win, but a point will be a good result, it'll keep us 4 points clear of our rivals.

Another way to look at it is that we are on the same points as Slovenia who have played harder games than us, making them favorites for 2nd place.  If we win tonight that would make us favorites, but I can't see that happening after how bad we were on Saturday. 

 

[andyD]

4 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

His acceptance that we are simply playing for second place in the group is unacceptable.

When did he say that? Cos he's in the press today saying anything can happen in this group.

[Parklife]

3 minutes ago, andyD said:

Lithuania outplayed us? Were we watching different games? We didn't play well, struggled in the first half to get any rhythm going, but we cut thru them in the 2nd with chance after chance, while they had one decent chance that they scored. When did they outplay us?

One decent chance?  

Their striker also missed a 1-on-1 and they cocked up a  3 vs 1 at the end too. 

[kumnio]

Positive people are ridiculous, we are screwed. Strachan must go. You lot don't have a clue. 

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, andyD said:

When did he say that? Cos he's in the press today saying anything can happen in this group.

He said today that second was his target 

[andyD]

4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

He said today that second was his target 

Got a link, cos I haven't seen it. Cheers.

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, andyD said:

Got a link, cos I haven't seen it. Cheers.

Was on BBC news earlier 

[andyD]

Are you talking about this?

“But we are definitely needing that big result away from home, somewhere along the line. This is an opportunity. There are four opportunities to do that, probably, and we need to get one of those big results away from home. At least one away from home, if we’re going to try to get second."

That's not saying we're only aiming for 2nd.. that's saying if we want to get into the playoffs we need to win at least 1 of the away games (outwith malta). It's a minimum requirement to win 1 of them.. it doesn't preclude the idea of winning 3 of them and topping the group.

[Parklife]

9 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Positive people are ridiculous, we are screwed. Strachan must go. You lot don't have a clue. 

Nothing wrong with being positive. It's the fact that folk have went to delusional that concerns me. 

I wonder what excuse they'll come out with after we lose tonight. "We're still above Slovakia", is my bet. 

[andyD]

Just now, Parklife said:

Nothing wrong with being positive. It's the fact that folk have went to delusional that concerns me. 

I wonder what excuse they'll come out with after we lose tonight. "We're still above Slovakia", is my bet. 

Scroll to the top of the page, i've already put that one out there

[ParisInAKilt]

2 minutes ago, andyD said:

Are you talking about this?

“But we are definitely needing that big result away from home, somewhere along the line. This is an opportunity. There are four opportunities to do that, probably, and we need to get one of those big results away from home. At least one away from home, if we’re going to try to get second."

That's not saying we're only aiming for 2nd.. that's saying if we want to get into the playoffs we need to win at least 1 of the away games (outwith malta). It's a minimum requirement to win 1 of them.. it doesn't preclude the idea of winning 3 of them and topping the group.

Might have been. From the beginning second has been mentioned several times. 

[Larky Masher]

http://stv.tv/sport/football/1369521-strachan-second-place-is-still-a-realistic-target-for-scotland/

[Parklife]

14 minutes ago, andyD said:

Scroll to the top of the page, i've already put that one out there

Aye, where you just decide we'll beat a team who, going by recent results, are better than us. 

[andyD]

1 minute ago, Parklife said:

Aye, where you just decide we'll beat a team who, going by recent results, are better than us. 

Well, we're the 4h pot team in this group aren't we? So by rights we finished 4th.

The point remains tho that even if we lose both the next two games, the group is far from over. There's no disaster yet. If we lose the next 3, then yeah we're probably done and at that point I'd be surprised if Strachan didn't walk away (or offer to). But as things stand now, the negativity is out of control. We've done enough to win both games we've played.. ok we haven't, but results have favoured us and we're still well placed in the group. I don't see a reason to be so negative yet. If we play rubbish tonight and lose 2-0 without a shot.. then fair enough I'll be as gutted as the next guy, but to have lost hope already and to be talking about sacking him if we lose tonight (as i've read some places) is incredibly premature.

[Parklife]

5 minutes ago, andyD said:

Well, we're the 4h pot team in this group aren't we? So by rights we finished 4th.

Nope, 3rd. We'll be 4th pot next time though, due to our sparkling run of form....

[andyD]

17 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Nope, 3rd. We'll be 4th pot next time though, due to our sparkling run of form....

Again.. bit pessimistic.. saying the bad thing's going to happen before it does. Our current FWR position has us in pot 3 still.. and 2013 (the oldest year for current scoring)  was the worst for us of any of those scoring years, so we'll happily lose that soon. Also, listening to Strachan, we seem to have learnt our lesson about arranging friendlies against the worlds best, which means we're more likely to pick up points from those as we should be playing teams we can actually beat. Barring a spectacular collapse during this campaign, there's no reason to think we'll drop into pot 4.