A Case For Jordan Rhodes

[Huddersfield]

I've not read this thread right through so apologies for duplication & general ignorance but I have been continuously surprised that Rhodes hasn't had more opportunities with Scotland. I've probably seen him play 50 - 60 times, including in recent seasons for Blackburn & whilst he can at times go missing on the pitch he has a real ability to 'ghost' into goalscoring positions. And one on one he will score more often than not.

I'm no expert on his competition but in my eyes I'd imagine that he would be a threat to most defences, especially if his midfield come to understand his movement & can find him with decent passes. I think he probably screwed up a bit going to Blackburn & wonder if maybe there's a bit of insecurity going on in his head as he seems to like to keep scoring in a comfort zone team rather than push himself on, but I'd definitely see a strong case for getting him involved.

[Caledonian Craig]

Point is we do not have midfielders who pick out strikers with defence splitting passes. Our midfielders strengths are in supporting the attack with runs of their own supporting strikers.

I would say you are probably best positioned to judge him for all the times you have watched him and you see his strengths as ghosting in so presume you don't see him as a striker to hold the ball up for support from midfield and off-loading?

[Huddersfield]

Point is we do not have midfielders who pick out strikers with defence splitting passes. Our midfielders strengths are in supporting the attack with runs of their own supporting strikers.

I would say you are probably best positioned to judge him for all the times you have watched him and you see his strengths as ghosting in so presume you don't see him as a striker to hold the ball up for support from midfield and off-loading?

No he's not really a great one for holding up play. His strength really is the classic striker's knack of seeming to find space & being a top quality finisher. He isn't tested against the very best defences but there's some fairly decent ones in the English Championship & he still finds the goals.

Obviously now I only see him once or twice a year, it's a few years since I saw him week in week out but when he's played against us for Rovers he has semed to play in a similar style. He definitely has a tendency to look to angle wide of the keeper & then find a gap. But I would agree that if you don't have players that can find him (& read where he is likely to be) then he's probably going to be ineffective a lot of the time.

[MikeyGC]

Think it is only fair the Rhodes gets a chance. At the end of the day when it comes to international football, you should be playing your infrom players and at this point in time Rhodes and Griffiths are our 2 in from strikers. However, Strachan likes Fletcher's hold up play and on top of that, scored last weekend so would not be surprised at all if we see him playing again. Would love to see either Rhodes or Griffiths given a chance from the start however can't see that happening unfortunately. If they are to come on however if the game is still at 0-0, I'd like to see them introduced before the 70th minute so that they get a chance to work their way into the game.

[killiefaetheferry]

Point is we do not have midfielders who pick out strikers with defence splitting passes. Our midfielders strengths are in supporting the attack with runs of their own supporting strikers.

I would say you are probably best positioned to judge him for all the times you have watched him and you see his strengths as ghosting in so presume you don't see him as a striker to hold the ball up for support from midfield and off-loading?

Midfielders can only play defence splitting passes if strikers make good angles and runs in behind. Not something that S. Fletcher is great at. So it's a bit of a circular argument. Still think we need to roll the dice and play both, especially as both have shown decent form over the the weekend. They should theoretically be the perfect combination for a front pairing.

I realise it might leave us short in midfield, but with the second man up front, it will inhibit the Polish full backs from pushing on too much to support their own midfield. Also gives us the option of hitting on the break, as Poland will have decent spells in the game. When they do have a decent spell, I would like us to have a couple of targets to tonk it forward towards. Controvertially, I would also advocate Forrest getting a run, for the same reason - pace on the break and evidence that his return towards full fitness shows a potentially really good winger.........with 2 options ahead of him.

So.......

Gordon

Hutton Hanley Martin Robertson

McArthur Brown

Forrest Maloney

Rhodes Fletcher

[Saint4805]

I think S Fletcher scoring at the weekend has unfortunately strengthened his case to keep his place.

Naismith's hattick against Chelsea is also fresh in people's minds and should ensure his inclusion. Expect Rhodes to be given a 'super sub' role at best. Would like to see Griffiths get a run but not sure he will.

[Marky]

Point is we do not have midfielders who pick out strikers with defence splitting passes. Our midfielders strengths are in supporting the attack with runs of their own supporting strikers.

You are hilarious.

How old are you? I'm going to go for 12-15.

Our midfielders play the way they are instructed to play. To suggest they don't have the ability to make "defence splitting passes" is ridiculous.

It's my contention that the style of play Strachan adopted in the early stages of the group has been well and truly found out. It's way past time for a plan B and Rhodes should be pivotal to that Plan B.

[Caledonian Craig]

You are hilarious.

How old are you? I'm going to go for 12-15.

Our midfielders play the way they are instructed to play. To suggest they don't have the ability to make "defence splitting passes" is ridiculous.

It's my contention that the style of play Strachan adopted in the early stages of the group has been well and truly found out. It's way past time for a plan B and Rhodes should be pivotal to that Plan B.

And you think you are hilarious but come across as quite pathetic.

Strachan obviously sees what poster Huddersfield sees. That poster is best placed to judge the striker and he admits hold-up play is not a strength of his hence falls into my summary as to why he is not being selected. Shame you cannot see the logic of that. As for our midfield well can you recall Brown slicing a team open with defence splitting passes? His are 5 to 10 yard lateral passes to keep possession. Why do you think we play the way we do? Strachan said when he came into the job he'd look at the players available to him and formulate a plan to best accomodate the strengths of the team and came up with the plan he did. I do agree about your Plan B absolutely. I'd prefer seeing us playing two up top V Poland but I honestly can't see it. If we were to do that then it would be Fletcher and Naismith for me.

[Marky]

And you think you are hilarious but come across as quite pathetic.

Strachan obviously sees what poster Huddersfield sees. That poster is best placed to judge the striker and he admits hold-up play is not a strength of his hence falls into my summary as to why he is not being selected. Shame you cannot see the logic of that. As for our midfield well can you recall Brown slicing a team open with defence splitting passes? His are 5 to 10 yard lateral passes to keep possession. Why do you think we play the way we do? Strachan said when he came into the job he'd look at the players available to him and formulate a plan to best accomodate the strengths of the team and came up with the plan he did. I do agree about your Plan B absolutely. I'd prefer seeing us playing two up top V Poland but I honestly can't see it. If we were to do that then it would be Fletcher and Naismith for me.

So let me get this straight. Your rationale for not selecting Rhodes is that Scott Brown isn't known for his passing? I must have missed the games where we played the 8-1-1 formation with Scott Brown as our only midfielder. No wonder we've not been getting results recently. Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Darren Fletcher, Shaun Maloney, James Morrison, Graham Dorrans etc etc etc aren't capable of making clever passes? If so you're more clueless than I thought.

That and the fact you don't believe Strachan will change his approach. I don't think he will either, but by that logic what is the point of debating anything. We might as well just name the same team now.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Marky

[Caledonian Craig]

So let me get this straight. Your rationale for not selecting Rhodes is that Scott Brown isn't known for his passing? I must have missed the games where we played the 8-1-1 formation with Scott Brown as our only midfielder. No wonder we've not been getting results recently. Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Darren Fletcher, Shaun Maloney, James Morrison, Graham Dorrans etc etc etc aren't capable of making clever passes? If so you're more clueless than I thought.

That and the fact you don't believe Strachan will change his approach. I don't think he will either, but by that logic what is the point of debating anything. We might as well just name the same team now.

Strachan plays us to a specific system that is clear. Fletcher playing lone striker to hold up the ball and bringing attacking midfielders into the game who make runs off him. The midfield is largely made up of players comfortable on the ball and can play the more conservative passes just fine and has midfielders such as Maloney and Anya who will look to take players on and beat them. If you can list me one goal we have scored in this campaign where we have split open defences with a pass of distance from midfield into a striker then I'd be very surprised. That system we play does NOT compliment Rhodes or Griffiths (and I have said many times they are due a chance as they are the best we have available). Sadly, though I don't see them being up to the task and even more so in this system we use. I would go two up top more often as it may just may make both of them (Rhodes and Griffiths) more potent but I still greatly doubt it.

I do think we should go for two up front but don't see it happening. If we did I'd opt for Fletcher and Naismith.

[Marky]

Strachan plays us to a specific system that is clear. Fletcher playing lone striker to hold up the ball and bringing attacking midfielders into the game who make runs off him. The midfield is largely made up of players comfortable on the ball and can play the more conservative passes just fine and has midfielders such as Maloney and Anya who will look to take players on and beat them. If you can list me one goal we have scored in this campaign where we have split open defences with a pass of distance from midfield into a striker then I'd be very surprised. That system we play does NOT compliment Rhodes or Griffiths (and I have said many times they are due a chance as they are the best we have available). Sadly, though I don't see them being up to the task and even more so in this system we use. I would go two up top more often as it may just may make both of them (Rhodes and Griffiths) more potent but I still greatly doubt it.

I do think we should go for two up front but don't see it happening. If we did I'd opt for Fletcher and Naismith.

FFS!!!

No, I can't name a goal we have scored in the way you describe. That's because Steven Fletcher doesn't make the runs associated with that type of goal. It DOES NOT mean that our midfielders are incapable of making such passes.

The whole point I'm making is that in the second half of this campaign, that style (particularly due the limitations of the participants - predominantly Fletcher) has been well and truly found out and needs to change in terms of either tactics or personnel. I don't really mind which. But to keep plugging away with something that isn't working, is stupid beyond belief.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Marky

[Caledonian Craig]

FFS!!!

No, I can't name a goal we have scored in the way you describe. That's because Steven Fletcher doesn't make the runs associated with that type of goal. It DOES NOT mean that our midfielders are incapable of making such passes.

The whole point I'm making is that in the second half of this campaign, that style (particularly due the limitations of the participants - predominantly Fletcher) has been well and truly found out and needs to change in terms of either tactics or personnel. I don't really mind which. But to keep plugging away with something that isn't working, is stupid beyond belief.

Think further back as well and you'll have a long trek back to where a midfielder has fed in one of our strikers with such a defence splitting pass. We haven't had that craft in midfield for too long. That is why we play the way we do. Strachan formulated this playing system to play to its strengths. He is not daft in that he knows we have no midfield masters capable of opening up defences so adapted the style we have to create chances in the way that we do. I agree with you (for the second or third time) that we need to change things for this game and I'd start with Fletcher and Naismith up front with midfield made up of Brown and McArthur (or Fletcher) in the middle with Any and Maloney out wide. I do not see it happening though.

[Marky]

Think further back as well and you'll have a long trek back to where a midfielder has fed in one of our strikers with such a defence splitting pass. We haven't had that craft in midfield for too long. That is why we play the way we do. Strachan formulated this playing system to play to its strengths. He is not daft in that he knows we have no midfield masters capable of opening up defences so adapted the style we have to create chances in the way that we do. I agree with you (for the second or third time) that we need to change things for this game and I'd start with Fletcher and Naismith up front with midfield made up of Brown and McArthur (or Fletcher) in the middle with Any and Maloney out wide. I do not see it happening though.

And it was at that point he stopped wasting his breath.......or fingers.

[Caledonian Craig]

And it was at that point he stopped wasting his breath.......or fingers.

Fair enough - the feeling is mutual.

[Ormond]

Agreeing with Marky here. Strachan's system was good to begin with but we have been well and truly sussed out. It's time to go with a plan b and I just can't see how Fletcher would fit that. The guy is hopeless.

[Caledonian Craig]

Agreeing with Marky here. Strachan's system was good to begin with but we have been well and truly sussed out. It's time to go with a plan b and I just can't see how Fletcher would fit that. The guy is hopeless.

I said after the Georgia game we needed a Plan B so am in agreement there.

[Ormond]

I said after the Georgia game we needed a Plan B so am in agreement there.

The Irish had it sussed in Dublin before that.

[killiefaetheferry]

I suspect it will be plan A - Fletcher on his own up front with Naismith/Maloney/Ritchie/Forrest in support, with Jordan Rhodes on the bench. Hope we don't need plan B, but at least Rhodes is there and at least a subbie this time.

[killiefaetheferry]

The Irish had it sussed in Dublin before that.

Give her a break, she is beginning to understand. Maybe start her on the offside rule next.

[Caledonian Craig]

Give her a break, she is beginning to understand. Maybe start her on the offside rule next.

Mrs Strachan??

Na I think Gordon has clued her up on that. Perhaps he should clue you up on why he does not play Rhodes and Griffiths as you don't seem to get it. It falls into the category that he sees Fletcher as the best option open to him in the striking role that suits his team. One that holds it up and feeds the ball to supporting midfielders. It really is jaw-dropping how people here don't get that. They must have a very limited grasp on Strachan's game plan.

Fans here screaming for Rhodes and Griffiths to play - that will only (maybe) happen if Strachan goes for two up front. If not then you can forget any of them starting. Even poster Huddersfield who has watched Rhodes far more in the flesh than anyone else here admits his hold up play is not his strength.

[killiefaetheferry]

Oooooh, check you. Cute with your angry face.

[Caledonian Craig]

Oooooh, check you. Cute with your angry face.

Cute? God you should be renamed killiefaethefairy if you are hitting on a bloke called Craig. I hope to god you aren't in the West Stand on Thursday.

[hunchy]

Just a wee point but I think the Huddersfield poster was talking about Rhodes time there where the poster would watch him week in week out. He admitted, iirc, that he hasn't seen much of him the past couple of seasons meaning once he went to Blackburn now in that time he could easily have improved his link up play and be more comfortable playing in a lone striker role which someone pointed out he has been doing quite a lot of now. Not saying he is going to be the next Pele or anything but surely he has to have his chance at a full run out not just as a bit part player

[killiefaetheferry]

Cute? God you should be renamed killiefaethefairy if you are hitting on a bloke called Craig. I hope to god you aren't in the West Stand on Thursday.

[Huddersfield]

Just a wee point but I think the Huddersfield poster was talking about Rhodes time there where the poster would watch him week in week out. He admitted, iirc, that he hasn't seen much of him the past couple of seasons meaning once he went to Blackburn now in that time he could easily have improved his link up play and be more comfortable playing in a lone striker role which someone pointed out he has been doing quite a lot of now. Not saying he is going to be the next Pele or anything but surely he has to have his chance at a full run out not just as a bit part player

Yes that's correct; I've only seen him I'd say 4 or 5 times since he left us, although my take when I have seen him is that his key strengths are very recognisable.

Here's the goals from the Blackburn - Hudds. game back in April this year. I think it shows exactly his strength. He sets their first goal up by creating mayhem in our penalty area & the second just finds the space he needs to head it in.