Parklife Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yes they have. Trying to find the tweet, might take a while, anyway i have an idea for a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalka Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yes they have. Trying to find the tweet, might take a while, anyway i have an idea for a movie. They should make the film a cycling version of Space Jam, I think that would be most fitting. Some of their "Marginal Gains" stuff does at least have a slight amount of anecdotal back-up to lend a tiny bit of credence but the blended food one is a "jumping the shark" one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherps Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This marginal-gain stuff is nothing new. Hinault used to get his soigneurs to carry him up stairs to save his legs. There was talk on C4 last night that Froome's going to release all his training, race and bio-passport data after the tour, for his whole career, to try and satisfy the doubters. I think the guy could go to whatever lengths possible and some people still wouldn't believe he's clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 There was talk on C4 last night that Froome's going to release all his training, race and bio-passport data after the tour, for his whole career, to try and satisfy the doubters. I think the guy could go to whatever lengths possible and some people still wouldn't believe he's clean. He won't release all his data. He'll release a carefully chosen sub-section of performance data and then all the sycophants and team Sky will go "We've given you everything, what more do you want?!" All the usual fanboys will swallow it, the media will swallow it. Meanwhile we'll have a guy who's went from mediocre (and that's being generous to him) cyclist, to one of the best climbers ever almost over night, at the age of 25. Yeah, i'm sure that's all down to pillows and abstention from Nutella though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This marginal-gain stuff is nothing new. Hinault used to get his soigneurs to carry him up stairs to save his legs. There was talk on C4 last night that Froome's going to release all his training, race and bio-passport data after the tour, for his whole career, to try and satisfy the doubters. I think the guy could go to whatever lengths possible and some people still wouldn't believe he's clean. the story i read was he hated stairs after his ride and was a bit precious sometimes. I've never seen a claim where he said he did it because it made him quicker on the tour. I've been hearing talk about Froome releasing data for at least a couple of years, seems someone from inside SKY has been releasing his data anyway, I wonder why. We'll see if this disclosure comes or not. ""I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Here we go the been looking forward to this climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Spoiler alert Contador, Nibali, Valverde and Quintana attacks all pulled back by Geraint Thomas and Porte, easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajin Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Even if Froome released every single data product that exists, it still won't remove much doubt. Trouble is that there is literally nothing you can do to prove you are not doping. Unless you ride like absolute pish, I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Todays climbing times set in historical context Pretty impressive time for Geraint Thomas to go up in that time, considering the work he has done this week and he was chasing down attacks as well. Edited July 16, 2015 by phart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Todays climbing times set in historical context Pretty impressive time for Geraint Thomas to go up in that time, considering the work he has done this week and he was chasing down attacks as well. Any context as to whether the other times were solo efforts or groups?If Froome was French there wouldn't be nearly as much press over drug allegations. They hate seeing an Englishman leading their tour. Edited July 16, 2015 by biffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Any context as to whether the other times were solo efforts or groups? 2004 was a duel between lance and Basso I'd have to look up the rest as can't remember the details. 2002 remarkably the same as todays, US Postal at front pulling up the yellow 2007 small group Edited July 16, 2015 by phart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 2004 was a duel between lance and Beloki or someone. I'd have to look up the rest as can't remember the details. OK. I'm assuming a group would likely go up quicker, particularly in a situation like today - one team with three riders trying to contain breakaways and being prepared to sacrifice someone on the way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 OK. I'm assuming a group would likely go up quicker, particularly in a situation like today - one team with three riders trying to contain breakaways and being prepared to sacrifice someone on the way up. Headwind and raining today, so slower conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajin Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I remember that Pantani ride in 98. He was great to watch in his pomp. I think what looks most damning for Sky is their similarity to Motorola/USPS/Discovery when Armstrong was dominating the Tour. It is the fact that several of their riders are able to stay with the main climbers for most, if not all, of the climbs. Easy to see why it looks like a systematic team doping effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 top 30 times. That was a fast run up by 9 folk, 2 Movistar as well as 2 SKY, but all the control done by SKY and attacks by Mvistar or whatever their name is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Incidentally from a performance stand-point the British cycling Track Team 4000m pursuit world record is a total outlier- 3:51.659. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Incidentally from a performance stand-point the British cycling Track Team 4000m pursuit world record is a total outlier- 3:51.659. Every record is an outlier to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Great finish to today's stage. Reminded me of a stage of the tour of California I saw a couple of years back where something similar happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Every record is an outlier to some extent. Yeah but in the context of records, it's like Radcliffes marathon record or Flo-jo's sprint ones, in how far it is in the context of the race. Sure every record is an outlier, it's the record, not all records are equal though, which is the false assumption of all records being outliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny's Yard Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Every record is an outlier to some extent. Depends how you look at it. If you plot record progression then an outlier would be a record that does not follow the line of progression. Taking the marathon as an example, Paula Radcliffe's WR, as Phart notes, is an outlier but Dennis Kimetto's isn't. Wikipedia has a list of the WR progression and graphs for both on this page... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_world_record_progression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Depends how you look at it. If you plot record progression then an outlier would be a record that does not follow the line of progression. Taking the marathon as an example, Paula Radcliffe's WR, as Phart notes, is an outlier but Dennis Kimetto's isn't. Wikipedia has a list of the WR progression and graphs for both on this page... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_world_record_progression That's why I said to some extent - it depends on how you look at it. Equally at any point in time, a record is an outlier purely by definition, where you take a simple statistical.definition of outlier as the most extreme result regardless of margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Contador 3rd fav at 33s ahead of my man Tejay at 66s. What is this based on ? Does it assume Contador will take minutes off him in the Alps ? Same for Quintana at 8/1 second fav ? So far Van Garderen has given them nothing much on climbs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Contador 3rd fav at 33s ahead of my man Tejay at 66s. What is this based on ? Does it assume Contador will take minutes off him in the Alps ? Same for Quintana at 8/1 second fav ? So far Van Garderen has given them nothing much on climbs ? Folk think contador will ride himself into the race as eh took loads of time off after Giro. Plus some crazy hills that suit him more really steep shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Folk think contador will ride himself into the race as eh took loads of time off after Giro. Plus some crazy hills that suit him more really steep shit. Plus as he's been caught once already, they don't think he'll be caught again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckielugger Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Its perfectly possible that froome is clean now but was his sudden rise to top level clean ? Will anyone ever know ? What did Wiggins think of Froome ? Was suspicion of Froome the reason behind Wiggins' dislike of him? I hope Froome is clean but this is a sport held down in the depths of doping and like athletics may never get out of it. Will sport ever issue life bans to dopers? Or will money always talk? They need to expel whole teams should any individual be caught. Then they might consider the financial risk too great. Likewise the Olympics...expel whole countries should one of their competitors fail a test. The americans etc might think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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