iainmac1 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Draws are tomorrow. I know we will probably only get one game, especially as we've lost our 3 best players, but excited none the less as it's our first ever game. Does anyone know the exact timings of the draw and when will we know the mini groups of possible teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Google it ya lazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
min Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Draw for the first qualifying round takes place at noon (Scottish time) with the second round draw at 1:30pm. No word of any mini groups, although from memory I recall them being announced on the morning of the draw last year. I'd expect both Dons and Saints to get through the first round, but all three Scottish teams would be unseeded in the second round and looking at the list of seeded teams, could be very tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Draws are tomorrow. I know we will probably only get one game, especially as we've lost our 3 best players, but excited none the less as it's our first ever game. Does anyone know the exact timings of the draw and when will we know the mini groups of possible teams? I think ICT will be OK for one round at least. Aberdeen could have beaten that team from Latvia last year with our under 16 side. There is always the chance that ICT (or Aberdeen or Saints) could draw a banana skin, but it's more likely you'll get a winnable tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
min Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I think ICT will be OK for one round at least. Aberdeen could have beaten that team from Latvia last year with our under 16 side. There is always the chance that ICT (or Aberdeen or Saints) could draw a banana skin, but it's more likely you'll get a winnable tie. I'm not so sure, ICT enter at the second qualifying round where they are currently seeded 63 out of 66 teams who will be in that round. Teams like Daugava will be long gone. If any of the three Scottish teams get to the third round it will be a minor achievement - as per Dons beating Groningen last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 everything you need to know is on here http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm not so sure, ICT enter at the second qualifying round where they are currently seeded 63 out of 66 teams who will be in that round. Teams like Daugava will be long gone. If any of the three Scottish teams get to the third round it will be a minor achievement - as per Dons beating Groningen last year. Good point. I'd forgotten that ICT manage to get a round further simply because they managed to win 5 games instead of being consistent over a 9 month season. Insane that they manage to get in a round further than the team that finished 2nd in the league by a mile over a long season. In that case, being unseeded in the 2nd round makes in quite difficult for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good point. I'd forgotten that ICT manage to get a round further simply because they managed to win 5 games instead of being consistent over a 9 month season. Insane that they manage to get in a round further than the team that finished 2nd in the league by a mile over a long season. In that case, being unseeded in the 2nd round makes in quite difficult for them. I assume Aberdeen had the same last year when they won a trophy ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I assume Aberdeen had the same last year when they won a trophy ? Winning the League cup didn't get us into Europe. Being in 3rd place did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'd forgotten that ICT manage to get a round further simply because they managed to win 5 games instead of being consistent over a 9 month season. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Sorry for keeping you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Winning the League cup didn't get us into Europe. Being in 3rd place did. Fair enough. Assumed it had. You've not foiled my attempt at a cheeky comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good point. I'd forgotten that ICT manage to get a round further simply because they managed to win 5 games instead of being consistent over a 9 month season. Insane that they manage to get in a round further than the team that finished 2nd in the league by a mile over a long season. In that case, being unseeded in the 2nd round makes in quite difficult for them. What's the bigger achievement and honour? What would you prefer? And as Aberdeen have finished 2nd 14 times but only won the cup 7 times it would seem winning the cup is harder to do than finish 2nd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) What's the bigger achievement and honour? What would you prefer? I'd prefer to win the cup, but the much more difficult achievement ....in the concept of one season...is finishing higher in the league. You could say....by using the same comparison.... that winning the League Cup (or even Ramsdens Cup) is a higher achievement than finishing 3rd in the league, but UEFA doesn't acknowledge that. Instead they rank beating St Mirren (over 2 games), Partick Thistle, Raith Rovers, Celtic and Falkirk over a 5 month period as meriting a higher ranking than a team that's far more consistent over a 38 game period. Personally, I disagree with that. Other don't, I get that and acknowledge it. Edited June 21, 2015 by Rossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Fair enough. Assumed it had. You've not foiled my attempt at a cheeky comment. Sorry - that should have read "You've now foiled my attempt at a cheeky comment" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
At U Peter Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Cheap trip to Ireland or Wales for the mighty Celtic please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'd prefer to win the cup, but the much more difficult achievement ....in the concept of one season...is finishing higher in the league. You could say....by using the same comparison.... that winning the League Cup (or even Ramsdens Cup) is a higher achievement than finishing 3rd in the league, but UEFA doesn't acknowledge that. Instead they rank beating St Mirren (over 2 games), Partick Thistle, Raith Rovers, Celtic and Falkirk over a 5 month period as meriting a higher ranking than a team that's far more consistent over a 38 game period. Personally, I disagree with that. Other don't, I get that and acknowledge it. It's not about what's 'harder' to achieve. It's about the prestige and history of a great competition. Let's also not get away from the fact that by finishing second you don't actually 'win' anything. It's funny how fickle football fans are. I mind Arsenal being slaughtered on here for 'celebrating' finishing 4th in the EPL. I'm not saying you are doing that but you see where I'm coming from? It's correct that the 'prize' for winning the National Cup completion is greater than that of second place IMO. The logic you are using is the sort of thing that has devalued cup competitions over the years. In 10 years time folk will remember ICT winning the cup. No one will give a that Aberdeen finished 2nd. The overall 'prize' should reflect that I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 It's not about what's 'harder' to achieve. It's about the prestige and history of a great competition. Let's also not get away from the fact that by finishing second you don't actually 'win' anything. It's funny how fickle football fans are. I mind Arsenal being slaughtered on here for 'celebrating' finishing 4th in the EPL. I'm not saying you are doing that but you see where I'm coming from? It's correct that the 'prize' for winning the National Cup completion is greater than that of second place IMO. The logic you are using is the sort of thing that has devalued cup competitions over the years. In 10 years time folk will remember ICT winning the cup. No one will give a that Aberdeen finished 2nd. The overall 'prize' should reflect that I reckon. I don't disagree that winning the cup gives you more 'honour and prestige' than finishing 2nd. Equally, and statistically, winning the League Cup is just as difficult as winning the Scottish cup. Yet, European wise, it means nothing....therefore the competition is devalued. Going by the 'reasoning' of your rant, you say that winning the League Cup is of greater value than finishing 2nd in the league. Is that correct ? So why doesn't it deserve a European place ? The prize for winning the national cup competition, is the cup itself, and the prestige. Aside from that, I simply don't agree that it deserves a higher ranking European place than a club that has performed consistently over a 38 game season. Your analogy about Arsenal, is utterly irrelevant by the way. I'll let you work out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 The league cup isn't the main cup competition in Scotland and has never held as much importance as the Scottish cup. As I mentioned before Aberdeen have finished 2nd 14 times and won the cup 7 times. Hearts have also finished 2nd 14 times and won the cup 8 times. Hibs a similar ratio. Those are the biggest non old firm teams in Scotland and that indicates that winning the cup is much harder than finishing 2nd overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I don't disagree that winning the cup gives you more 'honour and prestige' than finishing 2nd. Equally, and statistically, winning the League Cup is just as difficult as winning the Scottish cup. Yet, European wise, it means nothing....therefore the competition is devalued. Going by the 'reasoning' of your rant, you say that winning the League Cup is of greater value than finishing 2nd in the league. Is that correct ? So why doesn't it deserve a European place ? The prize for winning the national cup competition, is the cup itself, and the prestige. Aside from that, I simply don't agree that it deserves a higher ranking European place than a club that has performed consistently over a 38 game season. Your analogy about Arsenal, is utterly irrelevant by the way. I'll let you work out why. Ha hardly a rant m8. Just putting my point across is all. I understand your thinking, it's probably fairer as well, I just don't agree is all. Arsenal analogy was a load of shite, not sure where I was going there lol. The same is true of your League Cup question though given its not even recognised by uefa in this instance. The question is about the National Cup competition and Second in the league, league cup has nowt to do with it. But to answer, no I don't think it should receive a European place, nor do I think it's a bigger achievement than second in the league. As I said above I don't think it comes down to the difficulty of the competition, which you could argue is objective anyway. It was certainly more difficult for Aberdeen to finish second this season but that isnt always the case in Scotland. I personally just think those winning the cup should reap the full rewards of the achievement. It's probably one of the only things me and UEFA agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The league cup isn't the main cup competition in Scotland and has never held as much importance as the Scottish cup. As I mentioned before Aberdeen have finished 2nd 14 times and won the cup 7 times. Hearts have also finished 2nd 14 times and won the cup 8 times. Hibs a similar ratio. Those are the biggest non old firm teams in Scotland and that indicates that winning the cup is much harder than finishing 2nd overall. When Rangers were still in the top flight you could argue it was anything but hard for either side to finish second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 When Rangers were still in the top flight you could argue it was anything but hard for either side to finish second. Those ratios still stand with rangers in the top flight though. Only thing that would change is Aberdeen finishing 2nd 13 times to 7 cups wins. So they were able to finish 2nd far more times than win the cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Those are the biggest non old firm teams in Scotland and that indicates that winning the cup is much harder than finishing 2nd overall. Winning the cup is simply about winning 5 consecutive games. Now, the luck of the draw means that these games could be against Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hearts, or equally they could be against Linlithgow, Brora, Spartans, Cowdenbeath, and Alloa. Finishing high in the league is about consistency over 38 games. There's more honour and glory in winning a cup than finishing 2nd, but equally there's often a much bigger element of luck and good fortune. Given that both the 2nd place in the league team and cup winners now go into the same European competition, IMHO the league place deserves a 'better starting position' than the cup winner. That's just my opinion, and as I said I acknowledge the fact that others (including UEFA) see it differently. Edited June 21, 2015 by Rossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Given that both the 2nd place in the league team and cup winners now go into the same European competition, IMHO the league place deserves a 'better starting position' than the cup winner. Have to agree with this part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggycoo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I do realise it is a consequence of playing in Europe every year but find it astounding the level of teams with higher coefficients that ours, I mean F91 Dudelange anyone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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