Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Ach min, give us a break, This is the first time in a long while we have been in the position to indulge in all this speculation. By this stage of the campaign we are usually reduced to arguing about who our next manager should be. Did you not sense the sarcasm in my post ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltedsteamer147 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 No definitely not. IMO a draw in that game is the worst possible result for Scotland. I want a win for one side or the other but I'm not too fussy which one of them wins. I'm starting to think that a win for Germany is slightly better than a win for Poland but not much in it. A win for Germany would be best surely? A win for Poland would see them more than likely win the group and Germany will come second if they beat us. Our best chance of qualifying is for Germany to pump everyone in sight (apart from us) and for us to beat Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 A win for Germany would be best surely? A win for Poland would see them more than likely win the group and Germany will come second if they beat us. Our best chance of qualifying is for Germany to pump everyone in sight (apart from us) and for us to beat Poland. A win for Germany would see them more than likely win the group and Poland will come second if they beat us. Our best chance of qualifying is for Poland to pump everyone in sight (apart from us) and for us to beat Germany. Did you see what I did there? Most folk (including me, but only just) are wanting Germany to win because they are expecting Germany to beat us at Hampden and expecting us to beat Poland. There is no reason why it couldn't be the other way round. We get to have a crack at Germany first, so lets just get it over and done with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtag Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Problem is. If it's a 2 horse race for 2nd spot I'd rather be in it with Poland than Germany. Just like Italy in 07 do you think uefa want a finals without the world champions in it? They will be there so we need to be wanting Poland to lose. Just say Poland beat Germany, then Germany beat us but we beat Poland and lose out on 2nd place on goal difference or the odd point. We'd all be wishing Germany had beat Poland. Germany will be at the finals 100%. Uefa will ensure they are if it looks like the Germans can't do it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Problem is. If it's a 2 horse race for 2nd spot I'd rather be in it with Poland than Germany. Just like Italy in 07 do you think uefa want a finals without the world champions in it? They will be there so we need to be wanting Poland to lose. Just say Poland beat Germany, then Germany beat us but we beat Poland and lose out on 2nd place on goal difference or the odd point. We'd all be wishing Germany had beat Poland. Germany will be at the finals 100%. Uefa will ensure they are if it looks like the Germans can't do it themselves. Fair enough point about what UEFA want, but goal difference won't come into it. It is down to head to head results. If we beat Poland at Hampden then we would be ahead of them on the head to head, as we would have drawn away and won at home against them. Similarly, we are already in the same position with Ireland, and if we end up on the same points as them, then we would go ahead of them on the head to head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanDoz Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Georgia is the key game. We beat them and that cancels out Ireland's next 2 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. We would technically remain 3 points ahead due to the better head to head and there is no way they will get 3 points against Poland and Germany. We better win in Georgia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Most folk (including me, but only just) are wanting Germany to win because they are expecting Germany to beat us at Hampden and expecting us to beat Poland. There is no reason why it couldn't be the other way round. Absolutely. As it stands I would accept 3 points in total from the Germany and Poland games. Although losing to Poland at Hampden after beating Germany would be a bummer. That said they're a dangerous team... Edited June 19, 2015 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltedsteamer147 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 A win for Germany would see them more than likely win the group and Poland will come second if they beat us. Our best chance of qualifying is for Poland to pump everyone in sight (apart from us) and for us to beat Germany. Did you see what I did there? Most folk (including me, but only just) are wanting Germany to win because they are expecting Germany to beat us at Hampden and expecting us to beat Poland. There is no reason why it couldn't be the other way round. We get to have a crack at Germany first, so lets just get it over and done with. Although Germany have been poor by their standards, we are far more likely to beat Poland. Scotland and Poland are fairly evenly matched (based on rankings and our last two games against them). Germany are also more likely be beat Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Although Germany have been poor by their standards, we are far more likely to beat Poland. Scotland and Poland are fairly evenly matched (based on rankings and our last two games against them). Germany are also more likely be beat Poland. Exactly and those of us world-wise know that Germany don't do balls-ups in qualifying campaigns. In qualifying for tournaments, whatever the squad and whoever the manager, Germany are world champions at tournament qualification. Poland don't even come close so would say if people are hoping/expecting a collapse from Germany or Poland then it can only happen to Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radian_13 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Would rather need to beat Poland than have to beat ze Germans. We beat Georgia and Germany beat Poland, sets us up for Poland home game ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanatyk Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thank God our fans and players had different attitude before Germany game. Otherwise they would just sit and wait for the minimum sentence. But now we have result that may be crucial when group will come to and end. For return leg in Frankfurt we have nothing to lose but everything to gain (in reality 3 points there and automatic qualification is ours with 20 points in the basket before Scotland and Ireland). But then again defeat vs Germany is "included in the price" anyway so even if possible slip up in Frankfurt happens we will still have few games to play and hopefully qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thank God our fans and players had different attitude before Germany game. Otherwise they would just sit and wait for the minimum sentence. But now we have result that may be crucial when group will come to and end. For return leg in Frankfurt we have nothing to lose but everything to gain (in reality 3 points there and automatic qualification is ours with 20 points in the basket before Scotland and Ireland). But then again defeat vs Germany is "included in the price" anyway so even if possible slip up in Frankfurt happens we will still have few games to play and hopefully qualify. But may I point out you have more games that a slip up is likely in. Georgia at home you will win however the remaining three games you have are all pressure matches. Germany (away) and we all know Germany don't do play-offs so I expect no slip-ups from here on in from them, Scotland (away) and considering how the earlier fixture went there is no guarantee of a win here for you either. You finish with Ireland (home) and if you have screwed up in previous matches to this stage then Ireland quite easily could be arriving in Poland knowing a win in Poland is enough to get them at least a play-off. This isn't over by a long shot but I suspect Polish fans realise this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 And I meant Gibraltar not Georgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanatyk Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Of course it`s not over. But it also means Germany might drop more points in this group. Nothing they showed in group games so far (or USA friendly) to completely reject that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Of course it`s not over. But it also means Germany might drop more points in this group. Nothing they showed in group games so far (or USA friendly) to completely reject that scenario. fanatyk - Germany don't do qualification cock-ups. And they don't do play-offs. It is inbred into them and even when they have not their best sides they have ALWAYS qualified by right without fuss. Their track record at qualification I'd say is the best in world football so to expect/predict/say Germany are going to lose here or draw there - in my eyes is clutching at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Of course it`s not over. But it also means Germany might drop more points in this group. Nothing they showed in group games so far (or USA friendly) to completely reject that scenario. I do agree with this Germany WILL qualify - but they could very well be doing via 2nd / 3rd place Edited June 19, 2015 by Green_Tide_Rising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 fanatyk - Germany don't do qualification cock-ups. And they don't do play-offs. Didnt qualify for WC2002 via a playoff? But i do appreciate what your saying I would have held the same view as you when the draw was made - but im not as confident on them as i once was....maybe im being nieve....Time will tell Do think they will qualify though - but equally i do expect them to lose points to one the chasing 3 teams at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Would anyone take a point v Germany and a point v Poland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Didnt qualify for WC2002 via a playoff? But i do appreciate what your saying I would have held the same view as you when the draw was made - but im not as confident on them as i once was....maybe im being nieve....Time will tell Do think they will qualify though - but equally i do expect them to lose points to one the chasing 3 teams at least Perhaps but I am 100% confident they won't be qualifying via the play-offs. They will either win the group or finish second and for that to happen you need to look where their points are going to come from and so they'll beat Georgia at home and in the rest of their games I'd say it is more likely they will draw V us at Hampden or v Ireland in Dublin than losing at home to Poland. If we look closely at Poland's form so far the reason they are where they are is their win over Germany but in their other crunch games they have failed to beat us in Poland and yourselves in Dublin so they are evidently prone to dropping points in key matches. That is why Green_Tide_Rising I'd not rule you out going into the last fixture knowing if you beat Poland you pip them to a play-off spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Would anyone take a point v Germany and a point v Poland? As long as we take 6 points from the away games! A low scoring draw v Poland would win us the head to head which could be important if we both end up on 19 points... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggycoo Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Would anyone take a point v Germany and a point v Poland? Can easily see that happening, coupled with wins over Georgia and Gibraltar, leaving us with 19 points and finishing 2nd or 3rd depending on how other results fall. If we draw 1-1 with Poland at home do we then have the head to head by virtue of away goals?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) fanatyk - Germany don't do qualification cock-ups. And they don't do play-offs. It is inbred into them and even when they have not their best sides they have ALWAYS qualified by right without fuss. Their track record at qualification I'd say is the best in world football so to expect/predict/say Germany are going to lose here or draw there - in my eyes is clutching at straws. You really do get more wrong than you do right don't you. I've already pointed out to you that I was sure Germany had been involved in the play offs before (which you ignored), so I've taken the liberty of looking it up. Germany qualified for the 2002 World Cup (which they ultimately got to the final of) through the play offs. FWIW I agree with the people who suspect "UEFA won't allow Germany not to qualify", but I don't think they can do a great deal about it in the group stage. Far easier just to ensure they get the easiest play off possible. So in short, I don't think it's correct to say Germany will definitely finish in the top 2 because they always qualify. They can finish 3rd and still qualify easily. Edited June 19, 2015 by Marky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Wait and see Marky. What is more likely? Germany fouling up and going throufh the play-offs or Poland fouling up and being dragged back into play-offs. Certainly the latter if you take into account the fixtures they have left compared to Poland AND taking into account Germany's proven track record in such matters as qualification. Of course both may end up qualifying by right but my basic point is that if you gave me money to bet on one of those two cocking qualification up it would always be on Poland. Facts from 14 years ago I cannot remember to minute details but point is Germany have that failure is not acceptable engrained into their psyche whilst Poland don't hence have a look at each of their qualification records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Double post. Edited June 19, 2015 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney Hawkes TA Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Double post. Cheers for editing and deleting. I'd have been on the phone to the Smaritans if I'd had to read that twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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