wanderer Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yeah, and what power are they in these days? As I said, he might talk a big game, but he will never get in to power, and I am actually more shocked they failed to meet the 5% cut off to get into Parliament (I expected them to have a few seats, but nothing great). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Going back to last years thread guess who said this about Svoboda leader last year, before they took part in the fighting that killed 5,500 people, and their leader who decided not to observe the ceasefire "My wife is from the city where the leader of Svoboda is from..... She has known him for 25 years and he is a village idiot! Might open his mouth and let his belly rumble, but is a "harmless twat" who gets caught up with his emotions.... He is no Hitler" and the actual party "These guys might like to think they have some power at last, but it's on a very short leash. These guys running the country? Victoria finds that the funniest thing ever, as they have no power. Everyone wants their say in Ukraine just now, and clowns like this are getting air time, but they are harmless (she compares it to BNP or UKIP getting some tv time.... Folk might talk them up, but they are shot down just as fast)" deary me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 this question makes no sense to me can you clarify what you mean? You said it was Ukrainian out to kill Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine...... if that was the case, then why is a Ethnic Russian strong hold not under the full control of the rebels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Yeah, and what power are they in these days? As I said, he might talk a big game, but he will never get in to power, and I am actually more shocked they failed to meet the 5% cut off to get into Parliament (I expected them to have a few seats, but nothing great). the power of life and death http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/eastern-ukraine-humanitarian-disaster-looms-food-aid-blocked-2014-12-23 "As winter sets in, the already desperate situation in eastern Ukraine is being made even worse by the volunteer battalions preventing food aid and medicine from reaching those in need. It is no secret that the region is facing a humanitarian disaster with many already at risk of starvation,” said Denis Krivosheev, acting Director of Europe and Central Asia for Amnesty International. “These battalions often act like renegade gangs and urgently need to be brought under control. Denying food to people caught up in a conflict is against international law and the perpetrators must be held to account.” Amnesty International has received information that the pro-Kyiv battalions, which include Dnipro-1 and Aidar, have blocked aid entering territories controlled by the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR). The Dnipro-1 volunteer battalion, along with members of Donbass battalion and Pravyi Sector militia, are reported to have blocked 11 roads leading into the DNR-controlled territory. They have refused to allow most aid convoys through, because they believe food and clothing are ending up in the wrong hands and may be sold instead of being given as humanitarian aid. They also insist on the release of prisoners held by the separatist forces as a condition for granting access to the humanitarian aid to the east." "“Checking the content of humanitarian convoys crossing frontline is one thing. Preventing it is another. Attempting to create unbearable conditions of life is a whole new ballgame. Using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is a war crime,” said Denis Krivosheev." Amnesty International reiterates its call for the Ukrainian authorities to reign in the volunteer battalions and to ensure that humanitarian aid reaches those who desperately need it. Edited February 20, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) You said it was Ukrainian out to kill Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine...... if that was the case, then why is a Ethnic Russian strong hold not under the full control of the rebels? Why are these two things linked, how does not having ethnic russian stronghold relate to svodoba wanting to kill ethnic russians cause they are racists? Edited February 20, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Although since they dont have any MP's i'm sure parliament can just draft a resolution or something to stop them doing it, after all we've seen how much they respect democratically elected governments issuing decrees they don't like. I'm sure they have no power at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 In a way this thread is like the Ukraine in reverse. We have two Ukrainian wives waging a proxy war using their Scottish Husbands to fight a war of words on Scottish soil. It is like a bizarro world version of the Ukraine but on a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) In a way this thread is like the Ukraine in reverse. We have two Ukrainian wives waging a proxy war using their Scottish Husbands to fight a war of words on Scottish soil. It is like a bizarro world version of the Ukraine but on a thread. Here's another gem ME " As i said earlier this party is raising a 60,000 strong national guard as we speak. Now the people of Ukraine will suffer as everyone tried to get their piece of the pie, and start greeting cause the russians anticipated them and got the first slice. Meanwhile normal folk like us will suffer again as the two super powers and an aspiring third battle for control. the usual story." Someone else "60k????? Who are they going to get? Few students, couple of disgruntled villagers with pitch forks and one or two head cases? Country is bankrupt, what they going to fight with?? Chuck a couple of stones and charge the Russians in their beat up Lada's or Volga's? Ukraine has no army or weapons just now? They claim to have these guys but nobody believes them." "A new wave of military mobilisation that was scheduled to begin this week could result in as many as 104,000 citizens being drafted this year." "Fresh forces should come to the army and replace those who had been drafted before, during the first wave almost a year ago. Today we have to let the guys go home from the front line, to rest and restore combat capability," President Petro Poroshenko said after signing the mobilisation decree." http://ukraine.setimes.com/en_GB/articles/uwi/features/2015/01/21/feature-02 Edited February 20, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse Eddie Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 I Love the TAMB I made the original post and just wanted to highlight the fact we played in a country a few years ago, and now that country is at war. I now think we need a UN Observer to take over this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnie x Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I cant see this ceasefire actually lasting very long, its a catalogue of disasters. Nice of the Government to start upping the anti with scare stories about the baltic states, a dangerous game when all he is really trying to to is secure money for his govt department (and cosnequent job with an arms company) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 the power of life and death http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/eastern-ukraine-humanitarian-disaster-looms-food-aid-blocked-2014-12-23 There is only a hand full of routes these guys control, what about all the routes the Ukrainian Army are monitoring? As I said earlier there is bad apples in these units and I do not agree with all their actions. They won back and been able to keep land, this is the problem Kyiv has..... they can not be seen to celebrate it, but they can not be seen to encourage it. Asked my friend in Kyiv what he thinks of them and he told me they are not the hero's folk in the media make them out to be...... if asked would he join his reply was "50 Dollars a week to have a guy who has watched the Bourne Supremacy 60,0000 times, and think that makes him a solider, watching my back in a conflict..... no thanks!". With regards to Svodoba, his response was they had their chance to be seen as a proper party and they ruined it was their big mouths on tv....... as a result they have lost all their power, their backers will get fed up of them eventually and all these units they are funding towards will just walk away as very few of them will do it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 you asked what power they have, so i answered, what does the number of routes the ukrainian army hold have to do with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Its almost like a reverse of the cold war on here with some folk. The posts by some come across as they see Russia being the innocent party here and the Ukrainians being the Baddy's. For me I think there are groups of bad on both sides which just muddies the waters. At the end of the day Ukraine did what any country would do and try and defend its country from an invading force. I like how these that seem to be on the Russian side didn't bother to answer the question I posted earlier about Russian planes and boats testing our reaction times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) The Tories will clearly ramp up any threat Russia poses in order to win the election Personally i believe they pose none For what it's worth it's also my opinion that the Ukranian's are almost as right wing as the Nazis so i'm on Vlad's side Edited February 20, 2015 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Its almost like a reverse of the cold war on here with some folk. The posts by some come across as they see Russia being the innocent party here and the Ukrainians being the Baddy's. For me I think there are groups of bad on both sides which just muddies the waters. At the end of the day Ukraine did what any country would do and try and defend its country from an invading force. I like how these that seem to be on the Russian side didn't bother to answer the question I posted earlier about Russian planes and boats testing our reaction times Talking about Ukraine defending itself is starting in the middle of the story. Ukraine is fecked now, it has the Russians and the US fighting a proxy war on Ukrainian Soil. There are no good guys. 1 in 20 people have fled the country in less than 12 months, most of them into Russia. Some bombers flew near our airspace, but still flying in international air-space. It's probably some sort of posturing, I'm not sure flying an eastern corridor in a propeller plane out of british air-space is neccessarily testing our reaction time, but what do you think we should do? Convene the security council to chastise the Russians for flying near us... they were too close make them stop that. It's ridiculous, our own embassy in Venezuala has been implicated in the attempted coup there, but we're moaning about Russian planes being near our airspace. Edited February 20, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Firstly it is not as simple as some Russians.there have been a growing number of Russian aircraft flying at or parallel with UK airspace and not just in the same area but all round the UK. There have also been incidents of Russian ships heading to or in to UK territorial waters and even a report of a Russian sub suspected to have been operating off the west coast of Scotland. (Thanks to Tory cutbacks we had to ask for maritime aircraft from other nations to help us). Could it be just posturing or are they trying to lul us into a faulse sense of security. Personally I'm not gona jump at shadows but at the same time still not trust Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy North Croy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hunchy....the FACT of the "non-story" is that Russian planes were flying in INTERNATIONAL airspace..............., they did NOT enter UK airspace yet the media again portrayRussia as being aggressive....no mention of the DAILY US bomber flights over Russia.....................move along, nothing to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 What a non story like the Russian boat that was in the moray firth not that long ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Firstly it is not as simple as some Russians.there have been a growing number of Russian aircraft flying at or parallel with UK airspace and not just in the same area but all round the UK. There have also been incidents of Russian ships heading to or in to UK territorial waters and even a report of a Russian sub suspected to have been operating off the west coast of Scotland. (Thanks to Tory cutbacks we had to ask for maritime aircraft from other nations to help us). Could it be just posturing or are they trying to lul us into a faulse sense of security. Personally I'm not gona jump at shadows but at the same time still not trust Putin. Yeah but what has this to do with the Ukraine situation? I find it unlikely Russia is preparing for a first strike via aircraft against the UK or sub launches. There is not a leader in the world i trust and those with the most resources and therefore opportunities i trust the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yeah but what has this to do with the Ukraine situation? I find it unlikely Russia is preparing for a first strike via aircraft against the UK or sub launches. There is not a leader in the world i trust and those with the most resources and therefore opportunities i trust the least. Fair enough at least you can give me a decent reply. I just feel it seems that they are buzzing us more and more like I say I'm not go a jump at shadows over it but .... On the Ukrainians front I might be being forgetful here so forgive me if I get things wrong but was it not pro Russian rebals who kicked things off in the Crimea or was it the protests in kiev? That turned nasty that started it. Asking in the fighting sense not the political sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Fair enough at least you can give me a decent reply. I just feel it seems that they are buzzing us more and more like I say I'm not go a jump at shadows over it but .... On the Ukrainians front I might be being forgetful here so forgive me if I get things wrong but was it not pro Russian rebals who kicked things off in the Crimea or was it the protests in kiev? That turned nasty that started it. Asking in the fighting sense not the political sense Protests in kiev escalated to a coup, the former Russian friendly leader fled the city, Russia who had a treaty to have x amount of troops in the area because of the naval base at Svastapol so they had troops in the area, then Pro-russian protests erupted in the area and the Russians used the suppression of some of these as a pretext to come in and "annexe" the place. The Crimean government then decided to have a vote on whether to leave Ukraine and they voted in favour of it, while under Russian "occupation" though, so obviously it's not what you would call a free vote, although Crimea due to it's population demographs would have a majority voting anyway, but that's beside the point as it was hardly a normal election and legally might have been beyond their authority. although i would argue that the collective will of the people trump statutes etc. again that's beside the point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Fair enough at least you can give me a decent reply. I just feel it seems that they are buzzing us more and more like I say I'm not go a jump at shadows over it but .... they probably are, it's back to the Cold War and passive aggression was used a lot back in the day. As was fighting by proxies, they'll be annoying us and collecting data as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) BBC front page http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-31537705 Edited February 20, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 What a non story like the Russian boat that was in the moray firth not that long ago it was in the moray forth a year ago sheltering from the storm surge ... only problem was that the Royal Navy had no assets in the area as they are all based in Portsmouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Cheers phart makes the whole screwed up situation easier to understand. Its almost as if both sides were just waiting for an excuse. The us waiting for the protests to becomem big enough and Russia just waiting for the coup to start. Wonder if Russia had sneeked more troops in while the protests\coup was starting to make things easier for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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