Hertsscot Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I see "Just call me Dave" having now spent most of the summer avoiding Alex Salmond's invite to debate the Referendum is now saying he won't debate on tele unless the Greens are involved because otherwise 'it's not fair' (- he's a Tory when have they ever cared about things being fair!). Am I the only one suspicious of his motives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ironically, in this case I agree with him. He's got little to gain by getting involved in a beauty contest with the likes of Clegg and Farage...........who of course, have got lots to gain by being given the chance to spout some soundbites live on TV in front of 20 million potential voters. Is advisers have apparently been telling him to avoid these debates like the plague, and they're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 He has already said he would rather have no debates at all and this is a way of ensuring that. Or at least drawing out the process. He knows that it will create a long time draining process and that the SNP would then launch a legal appeal and perhaps Plaid as well. It could go a long way to there being no debates at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 no debate is fine by me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 no debate is fine by me... Me too. Probably the first time I have ever agreed with the toffy nosed Tory twat. TV debates are a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Me too. Probably the first time I have ever agreed with the toffy nosed Tory twat. TV debates are a waste of time. aye and Scotland gets missed out big time, they talk about NHS , Crime, transport etc and its English problems they discuss and the general viewing public who love the BBC, MSM etc (NAW voters and the like) believe it all and don't realise these policies nowt to do with them.... that they are run from Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbruman Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Anyone notice how the MSM - especially BBC - making a distinct effort to ignore SNP - all this discussions about Greens, UKIP and yet no mention of the SNP. If the SNP manage to hold the balance of power - I would hope they don't have a coalition with anyone - just either pass sensible motions and vote against the bad ones. Probably cause constitutional crisis - but look what happened to Lib Dems going into coalition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ironically, in this case I agree with him. He's got little to gain by getting involved in a beauty contest with the likes of Clegg and Farage...........who of course, have got lots to gain by being given the chance to spout some soundbites live on TV in front of 20 million potential voters. Is advisers have apparently been telling him to avoid these debates like the plague, and they're right. I agree that politically he's shrewd in avoiding public tv debate, I just think he's lying through his teeth when he says why he doesn't want to debate in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Farage will represent unofficial right wing of the Tory party and so for balance Cameron wants the Greens on board to balance it up about in terms of Ed being held to account by the Greens for delariction of left wing ideals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Blackheart Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Aye - people saying that he's running scared, but I think he's being quite shrewd. At the last election, after the first debate there was the "nick clegg effect" which although overestimated, still probably ended up costing labour a few percentage points. With ukip taking mostly Tory votes, cameron would welcome a similar "next best thing" response towards the greens, as it is more likely to harm labour/ snp/ lib dems than the conservatives. And if the debates get scrapped, I'm sure he couldn't give a toss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobite Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I understood the argument about not allowing the SNP or Plaid into a debate was that they were not UK parties. I take it the Green party they are talking about are the English and Welsh Green party rather than the Scottish Green party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I understood the argument about not allowing the SNP or Plaid into a debate was that they were not UK parties. I take it the Green party they are talking about are the English and Welsh Green party rather than the Scottish Green party. Yep. Although Scottish Greens wouldnt care at all as long as a Green candidate was on - different parties, same movement. Good move by Dave. Suits him politically but it's right result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Miliband now saying that Dave is running scared of TV debates - funny can't remember Ed coming up wth that when Alex wanted to debate the Referendum last year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbruman Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 BBC Six O'clock news - main item Cameron and Milliband clashing in Westminster over TV debate. FFS talk about priorities. Virtually ignoring SNP throughout the whole report then finally adding on a quick bit from Nicola Sturgeon as an afterthought. I'm sure items like this will show just how alienated Scotland is as far as the media is concerned re this election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) I see the BBC webpages says Miliband said he would debate with "anyone invited by the broadcasters". So what's to stop a debate involving the Greens and SNP etc? What's to stop a separate format for Scottish and Welsh viewers? I see Douglas Alexander says it's up to the broadcasters... so what's to stop the broadcasters inviting the Greens and getting Cameron too? Also, he is calling UKIP a major party now! Edited January 14, 2015 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kps022000 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 All I seen was the suggestion that the debates should go ahead with an empty chair replacing the PM. Problem with that plan is that Miliband will still end up looking stupid and unelectable. What should be a gift, he will go all Clint Eastwood and make a tit of himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So Cameron at PMQs referred to Lib Dems, UKIP and Greens as the three minor parties... SNP is the party of govt in Scotland so can't be a minor party, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 SNP is the party of govt in Scotland so can't be a minor party, right? UK wide they are. Cameron's just not even considering them as worthy of participating in the debates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Has anyone got a poll of projected popular vote and seat vote for the election? If the SNP is above either UKIP or the Greens, then they should be in the debate. End of discussion. J Edited January 15, 2015 by Bristolhibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 UK wide they are. Cameron's just not even considering them as worthy of participating in the debates... Depends what you're measuring. UK wide the SNP have presently still got more MPs than the Greens and UKIP put together! looking at future projections they're still likely to get more then the Greens and UKIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Depends what you're measuring. UK wide the SNP have presently still got more MPs than the Greens and UKIP put together! looking at future projections they're still likely to get more then the Greens and UKIP. That's true. If the criteria is vote share the SNP will be ranked low, less than 5%, but even with that level of support they could be the UK's third party in terms of seats after the election! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ok correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't researched this to check. But the SNP aren't being allowed to debate as they aren't a UK wide party and Cameron will only debate if the greens are involved as they have seats in parliament and are a UK wide party. Isn't it true though that the greens aren't a UK wide party. The green party of England and Wales is a completely separate party to the Scottish greens. Yes they might share similar ideologies and policies but they are separate parties. They also have different policies in some cases. They also share ideology with green parties in France, Germany etc but are separate parties albeit under the green banner. Does this not destroy the whole UK wide argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Ok correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't researched this to check. But the SNP aren't being allowed to debate as they aren't a UK wide party and Cameron will only debate if the greens are involved as they have seats in parliament and are a UK wide party. Isn't it true though that the greens aren't a UK wide party. The green party of England and Wales is a completely separate party to the Scottish greens. Yes they might share similar ideologies and policies but they are separate parties. They also have different policies in some cases. They also share ideology with green parties in France, Germany etc but are separate parties albeit under the green banner. Does this not destroy the whole UK wide argument? Neat. Now what if SNP teamed up with plaid and the SDLP and one minor english party (even, a specifically created English Independence Party)... they could fight on a genuine 'dissolving the Uk' joint ticket.... that would be a UK wide party, and in fact the only UK wide party! Edited January 15, 2015 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ok correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't researched this to check. But the SNP aren't being allowed to debate as they aren't a UK wide party and Cameron will only debate if the greens are involved as they have seats in parliament and are a UK wide party. Isn't it true though that the greens aren't a UK wide party. The green party of England and Wales is a completely separate party to the Scottish greens. Yes they might share similar ideologies and policies but they are separate parties. They also have different policies in some cases. They also share ideology with green parties in France, Germany etc but are separate parties albeit under the green banner. Does this not destroy the whole UK wide argument? Not wishing to be pedantic but there aren't any UK wide parties as the UK includes N.Ireland and the Tories etc don't field candidates there. Anyhow I do think you're right about the Scottish Greens and English Greens being separate (my knowledge of Welsh Greens is non-existent). Hell, I'd stand if SNP want a candidate in Englandshire if that gets Nicola on tele - I might even poll more than the LibDems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The Greens are in Northern Ireland. So are UKIP I think. Maybe those 2 can do the debates themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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