Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

14 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

There are 59 seats to fight and the SNP currently have 42 (since Labour took Rutherglen)

SNP stand 50 candidates and the remaining 9 come from ALBA, The Greens and ISP

Something like that

But what currency would you use ?

How do Alba go about winning those seats?

[Ally Bongo]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

How do Alba go about winning those seats?

Are you just trying to be obtuse now ?

The SNP had to pay & import activists to run the Rutherglen & Hamilton West by-election campaign - thats how far the SNP support has fallen 

[aaid]

23 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Are you just trying to be obtuse now ?

The SNP had to pay & import activists to run the Rutherglen & Hamilton West by-election campaign - thats how far the SNP support has fallen 

I'm not asking about the SNP, I'm asking about Alba, why are you so scared to answer it?

[Ally Bongo]

18 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm not asking about the SNP, I'm asking about Alba, why are you so scared to answer it?

I'm not scared as it's a stoopid question from someone that isnt that stoopid

Thats why i keep referencing "what currency would you use" because it's as stoopid as that one ....

The clue is in Scotland United

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I'm not scared as it's a stoopid question from someone that isnt that stoopid

Thats why i keep referencing "what currency would you use" because it's as stoopid as that one ....

The clue is in Scotland United

Oh, I know exactly what's going on, I'm just wondering why you won't say it.

Isn't it, that as Alba have lost every single seat since they've been in existence, all of which were because of defectors from the SNP, they know that they cannot win seats where the SNP are standing against them.

So the "ask" is "give us a a couple of seats and we'll tell our supporters to vote for you".

It's essentially blackmail.

[Alibi]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

I think we have to agree to disagree on the subject of the Greens.   If I take you at your word that the “wokerati” wing of the SNP aren’t interested in independence then I’d also say the same thing about the “anti-wokerati” wing of the Indy movement. They *both* expand more effort talking about that, specifically GRR, and attacking the other side than they do about Indy, if that’s your measure.  The prime example is Joanna Cherry.

I see Alba have launched their Indy strategy, it looks very similar to the SNP’s one with the - defeated - Pete Wishart one about votes.

Their “Scotland United” pitch on one hand looks attractive but there is one fundamental problem with it, they’ve not shown that they are capable of winning a seat, in fact given that they’ve lost every single seat they have, they’re stone cold election losers.

I think the point is that a concerted and united "Scotland Independence Party" would be able to garner more votes than the SNP standing alone.  That is partly due to the wall to wall negative MSM coverage to which the SNP is subjected; partly due to some unwise policies being pursued; and partly due to the unpopularity amongst a significant tranche of the electorate of some individuals, including Yousaf and also, now, Nicola Sturgeon.  The problem is that there's nobody to arrange a united body to turn the next GE into a de facto referendum - too much intolerant fragmentation, which has not happened by accident.

What the SNP should be doing at the moment and for the next year or more is attacking the Labour party's many weak points - pro brexit, anti indy, anti FoM, anti immigration, pro nukes etc.  Expose what Labour really stand for in Scotland and Labour support will fall back.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Alibi said:

I think the point is that a concerted and united "Scotland Independence Party" would be able to garner more votes than the SNP standing alone.  That is partly due to the wall to wall negative MSM coverage to which the SNP is subjected; partly due to some unwise policies being pursued; and partly due to the unpopularity amongst a significant tranche of the electorate of some individuals, including Yousaf and also, now, Nicola Sturgeon.  The problem is that there's nobody to arrange a united body to turn the next GE into a de facto referendum - too much intolerant fragmentation, which has not happened by accident.

What the SNP should be doing at the moment and for the next year or more is attacking the Labour party's many weak points - pro brexit, anti indy, anti FoM, anti immigration, pro nukes etc.  Expose what Labour really stand for in Scotland and Labour support will fall back.

That was until fairly recently the SNP, the "wall to wall negativity" would just transfer, it wouldn't go away.

At least Sinn Fein waited until they had a treaty in place with the UK government in 1922 before starting a bitter internecine struggle.

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

I'm not asking about the SNP, I'm asking about Alba, why are you so scared to answer it?

bloody hell thats the pot calling the kettle black, alba will win 6-10 seats at the holyrood election,, westminster the only chance they would have is the north east but thats a long shot

Edited November 2, 2023 by hampden_loon2878

[aaid]

23 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

bloody hell thats the pot calling the kettle black, alba will win 6-10 seats at the holyrood election,, westminster the only chance they would have is the north east but thats a long shot

2022 Aberdeenshire Council elections, Alba share of FP votes - 0.7%.   Total FP votes, 464. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by aaid

[Ally Bongo]

51 minutes ago, aaid said:

2022 Aberdeenshire Council elections, Alba share of FP votes - 0.7%.   Total FP votes, 464. 

How many members did the SNP have in 2022 compared to now ?

How many votes did the SNP lose at the Rutherglen by election compared to 2019 ?

Scotland United attracts those that will no longer vote for the SNP under the current climate ergo not blackmail

Edited November 2, 2023 by Ally Bongo

[PapofGlencoe]

2 hours ago, Alibi said:

I think the point is that a concerted and united "Scotland Independence Party" would be able to garner more votes than the SNP standing alone.  That is partly due to the wall to wall negative MSM coverage to which the SNP is subjected; partly due to some unwise policies being pursued; and partly due to the unpopularity amongst a significant tranche of the electorate of some individuals, including Yousaf and also, now, Nicola Sturgeon.  The problem is that there's nobody to arrange a united body to turn the next GE into a de facto referendum - too much intolerant fragmentation, which has not happened by accident.

What the SNP should be doing at the moment and for the next year or more is attacking the Labour party's many weak points - pro brexit, anti indy, anti FoM, anti immigration, pro nukes etc.  Expose what Labour really stand for in Scotland and Labour support will fall back.

I completely agree with this. Every word.  Especially sentence one.  I don't see it as Alba or greens blackmailing for seats, i think that's navel gazing.  i couldnt really care less about the parties involved.  In fact Alba could dissolve and it wouldn't change my view.  The challenge is could a specially constituted party for nationhood take more votes than the SNP?  some kind of civic convention which will take in left, right whatever.  A slate of leaders from the main parties and an independent list drawn up.   current MPs would likely get into a machination of who gets what seat in a parliament we want to leave.. but that's up to them.

Has to be a united front amongst people that hate each other.  aint going to happen any time soon.  I think if a historic agreement had been constituted in January of this year.  A shared stage of Sturgeon, Harvie, Salmond, Forbes, Cherry..heck even Tommy Sheridan.. whoever.. and a reconstituted party specifically for the election under Sturgeon's Defacto plan, we may have been cooking the gas.  Bear in mind, Independence was the clear majority in polls at the time. I actually thought this must have been the plan when they went to the Supreme Court, at least something was in the fire to build a coherent united approach.    Alas, time has passed.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by PapofGlencoe

[aaid]

31 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

How many members did the SNP have in 2022 compared to now ?

How many votes did the SNP lose at the Rutherglen by election compared to 2019 ?

Scotland United attracts those that will no longer vote for the SNP under the current climate ergo not blackmail

If that were true then you would be seeing a respective uptick in Alba’s polling numbers, you aren’t. 

[PapofGlencoe]

4 minutes ago, aaid said:

If that were true then you would be seeing a respective uptick in Alba’s polling numbers, you aren’t. 

it's possible the united approach is to disguise both these parties are relatively unpopular! 😄   

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

it's possible the united approach is to disguise both these parties are relatively unpopular! 😄   

There’s magical thinking and there’s this. 

[PapofGlencoe]

11 minutes ago, aaid said:

There’s magical thinking and there’s this. 

i've said my piece, i wont rehash it again.  i note it's not really a rebuttal, i think the last time it was a stream of consciousness, now it's magical thinking.

what's neither is seeing my pro independence pals not voting SNP anymore.  And not once have they mentioned Alba, never mind dismiss them.  going by polls it's catching on.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

i've said my piece, i wont rehash it again.  i note it's not really a rebuttal, i think the last time it was a stream of consciousness, now it's magical thinking.

what's neither is seeing my pro independence pals not voting SNP anymore.  And not once have they mentioned Alba, never mind dismiss them.  going by polls it's catching on.

The SNPs problem right now is that a significant part of their support is not prepared to vote for them.  As I’ve said before, some is going to the greens, some to Labour, the bulk I suspect are undecided.  That little to none is going to Alba suggests that they aren’t cutting through and so those portraying them as kingmakers or predicting 6-10 votes are dreaming.    

Whatever the problem is, Alba is not the solution.

The SNP can recover the position as the Yes vote is staying pretty stable at ~ 50%, but the need to start doing that.  Alibi said they need to start attacking Labour directly and I agree with that.

[PapofGlencoe]

13 minutes ago, aaid said:

The SNPs problem right now is that a significant part of their support is not prepared to vote for them.  As I’ve said before, some is going to the greens, some to Labour, the bulk I suspect are undecided.  That little to none is going to Alba suggests that they aren’t cutting through and so those portraying them as kingmakers or predicting 6-10 votes are dreaming.    

Whatever the problem is, Alba is not the solution.

The SNP can recover the position as the Yes vote is staying pretty stable at ~ 50%, but the need to start doing that.  Alibi said they need to start attacking Labour directly and I agree with that.

to be clear at no point did i suggest Alba were the solution.  quite the opposite.  my issue is i'm not sure the snp are either, at the moment.  

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

to be clear at no point did i suggest Alba were the solution.  quite the opposite.  my issue is i'm not sure the snp are either, at the moment.  

To be clear, I was talking about others.  
 

[mariokempes]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

The SNPs problem right now is that a significant part of their support is not prepared to vote for them.  As I’ve said before, some is going to the greens, some to Labour, the bulk I suspect are undecided.  That little to none is going to Alba suggests that they aren’t cutting through and so those portraying them as kingmakers or predicting 6-10 votes are dreaming.    

Whatever the problem is, Alba is not the solution.

The SNP can recover the position as the Yes vote is staying pretty stable at ~ 50%, but the need to start doing that.  Alibi said they need to start attacking Labour directly and I agree with that.

The snp will never recover their dominant position.  At least until a massive clearance of all the nicolettes and arse lickers are gone. And sadly I cannot see that happen. Doubt she'll do any time, though she should.  Obviously a deals been done for her to step aside. 

 

Anyhoo the snps fucked.  

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

The SNPs problem right now is that a significant part of their support is not prepared to vote for them.  As I’ve said before, some is going to the greens, some to Labour, the bulk I suspect are undecided.  That little to none is going to Alba suggests that they aren’t cutting through and so those portraying them as kingmakers or predicting 6-10 votes are dreaming.    

 

Alba haven't stood any candidates in any elections since May 2022

There has been a helluva lot of water under the bridge since then

 

[Och Aye]

If the below proposals are true it's the end of the line for the SNP in 'YES' voting North Lanarkshire. Back to being a Labour stronghold.

[hampden_loon2878]

35 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

If the below proposals are true it's the end of the line for the SNP in 'YES' voting North Lanarkshire. Back to being a Labour stronghold.

they are systematically going after yes/snp strong holds and destroying the traditions of the party making them un electable,, we as a party are totally fucked... it all makes sense why humza was pushed so hard by the snp HQ,, Continue the sabotage 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Och Aye said:

If the below proposals are true it's the end of the line for the SNP in 'YES' voting North Lanarkshire. Back to being a Labour stronghold.

There is more to this than British Labour grandstanding if you look into it - particularly when the NICU at Wishaw is not closing which is what Unionists want people to believe

[Malcolm]

the snp have only themselves to blame for having snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  It’s all falling apart now and I said years ago that the greens would be their undoing.

that then the elevation of Humza to leader and it’s goodbye to their once dominant position and hello again to fringe party status.

i probably won’t vote in the next election given the paucity of credible options.

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

the snp have only themselves to blame for having snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  It’s all falling apart now and I said years ago that the greens would be their undoing.

that then the elevation of Humza to leader and it’s goodbye to their once dominant position and hello again to fringe party status.

i probably won’t vote in the next election given the paucity of credible options.

Whilst not wanting to vote is often understandable, surely some parties will be less offensive to you than others?