Indyref 2 (2)

[Hertsscot]

11 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The thing is when spirits are low it is hard to stir people to action. And there is no doubt SNP supporters/voters spirits are low just now for various obvious reasons. The Sturgeon debacle then an unpopular new FM being elected and topped with no forward momentum or seemingly no activity on the independence front will crush spirits.

It's like watching the football at Hampden. The team are struggling, they've thrown away their lead, the fans are quiet and subdued, needs a bit of magic from someone to get the crowd going again.

[Orraloon]

44 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

It's like watching the football at Hampden. The team are struggling, they've thrown away their lead, the fans are quiet and subdued, needs a bit of magic from someone to get the crowd going again.

Or, the crowd can get grumpy and impatient and just shout obscenities from the sidelines.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

i dont true scale of what happened in rutherglen has sunk in yet, look at the resources that was pumped into the campaign and the got a result like that,, its pretty crazy really.... humza needs to go, and go quickly,,the NEC need a complete clear out, bring back sane advisors and try to court some of the old guard back

[aaid]

I’ve just been watching Humza Yousaf’s eve of conference interviews and how that guy is even standing after this last week after everything going on with his family, he looks absolutely shattered.

And yet, he’s standing up in front of the press and answering questions, meeting with the Jewish community, the Palestinian community, being the *sole* political leader who is stressing the humanitarian case and opposition towards collective responsibility.

This guy is made of stronger stuff that I thought.

[Hertsscot]

29 minutes ago, aaid said:

I’ve just been watching Humza Yousaf’s eve of conference interviews and how that guy is even standing after this last week after everything going on with his family, he looks absolutely shattered.

And yet, he’s standing up in front of the press and answering questions, meeting with the Jewish community, the Palestinian community, being the *sole* political leader who is stressing the humanitarian case and opposition towards collective responsibility.

This guy is made of stronger stuff that I thought.

It is so sad how people are having a pop at him. I understand that not everyone likes his politics, fair enough, but when you see some of the stuff on social media, you have to ask where's the empathy, where's the compassion? 

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Hertsscot said:

It is so sad how people are having a pop at him. I understand that not everyone likes his politics, fair enough, but when you see some of the stuff on social media, you have to ask where's the empathy, where's the compassion? 

It’s not sad, some of it is absolutely disgusting.   

[aaid]

How can anyone take this mob seriously.  Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if this was just McEleny freestyling, someone grown up there needs to change the password  

https://www.albaparty.org/alba_call_on_uefa_to_release_var_audio_recordings

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

How can anyone take this mob seriously.  Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if this was just McEleny freestyling, someone grown up there needs to change the password  

https://www.albaparty.org/alba_call_on_uefa_to_release_var_audio_recordings

What is your gripe with that ?

Or is it that it should be left to the hopeless SFA ?

[hampden_loon2878]

14 hours ago, aaid said:

I’ve just been watching Humza Yousaf’s eve of conference interviews and how that guy is even standing after this last week after everything going on with his family, he looks absolutely shattered.

And yet, he’s standing up in front of the press and answering questions, meeting with the Jewish community, the Palestinian community, being the *sole* political leader who is stressing the humanitarian case and opposition towards collective responsibility.

This guy is made of stronger stuff that I thought.

He’s fucking terribly weak, let’s not kid ourselves 

[RDFH64]

9 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

What is your gripe with that ?

Or is it that it should be left to the hopeless SFA ?

The SFA should’ve requested the var audio be released due to the confusion caused by the var officials & the referee which would be a fair, reasonable & openly sensible thing to do, if eufa have nothing to hide it shouldn’t be a hard decision to make but I’m not holding my breath waiting to hear the conversation or multiple conversations between var & the referee. Transparency is not what eufa or fifa do, secrecy & underhand dealings is part of their daily dealings.

[Hertsscot]

Absolutely nothing on the BBC website about the Chain of Freedom event. I have no idea how successful it was, or how many people participated other than to say at the section I was at in Bonnybridge there was a really good turn out. 

I dare say when the protests which inspired today's action were held in Estonia that they never got covered by Soviet television.

[Ally Bongo]

SNP Members - those that are left who elected Humza - "overwhelmingly" back an "Independence Strategy" based on the party winning a majority of seats at next year's General Election.

Well Aaid - has the mask slipped for you now ?

We have a majority of seats now and Westminster couldn't give a fuck

What's the forecast for SNP seats next year on current polling ? 

Fucking mental - basically this is just a "keep us on the gravy train" and we promise Jam sometime

 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

SNP Members - those that are left who elected Humza - "overwhelmingly" back an "Independence Strategy" based on the party winning a majority of seats at next year's General Election.

Well Aaid - has the mask slipped for you now ?

We have a majority of seats now and Westminster couldn't give a fuck

What's the forecast for SNP seats next year on current polling ? 

Fucking mental - basically this is just a "keep us on the gravy train" and we promise Jam sometime

 

Well Joanna Cherry seems to be fully on board with the plan and is happy the party has “accepted her plan” - it’s not just “her” plan obviously and “Comfy Slippers” Pete’s amendment was in his words “absolutely gubbed”.

Maybe Wings will need to try and rewrite the narrative.

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

Well Joanna Cherry seems to be fully on board with the plan and is happy the party has “accepted her plan” - it’s not just “her” plan obviously and “Comfy Slippers” Pete’s amendment was in his words “absolutely gubbed”.

Maybe Wings will need to try and rewrite the narrative.

Just listened to Alyn Smith on The Westminster Hour while at the same time reading that Tommy Sheppard is calling for the 2026 Holyrood election to be a de-facto referendum.

Everyone on the panel laughed their tits off at the "majority of seats" strategy - How the fuck can you go to Sunak or Starmer saying we have won the majority of seats (29) even though it is less that the (48) we had before the election.

The SNP are no longer serious on Independence and they are treating those that are left in the Party with contempt

How the fuck could Conference pass such a shitty strategy unless the Conference is full of Humza drones ?

They are not just kicking the can down the road - they are taking the piss and only interested in keeping their MP salaries

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Just listened to Alyn Smith on The Westminster Hour while at the same time reading that Tommy Sheppard is calling for the 2026 Holyrood election to be a de-facto referendum.

Everyone on the panel laughed their tits off at the "majority of seats" strategy - How the fuck can you go to Sunak or Starmer saying we have won the majority of seats (29) even though it is less that the (48) we had before the election.

The SNP are no longer serious on Independence and they are treating those that are left in the Party with contempt

How the fuck could Conference pass such a shitty strategy unless the Conference is full of Humza drones ?

They are not just kicking the can down the road - they are taking the piss and only interested in keeping their MP salaries

What would your plan be?

 

[Ally Bongo]

37 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

What would your plan be?

 

Everyone knows what the plan is if you are serious about Independence

All you have to do is look back a few pages and see it 

 

[aaid]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Everyone knows what the plan is if you are serious about Independence

All you have to do is look back a few pages and see it 

 

Spell it out then. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Spell it out then. 

https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-you-do-it/

[PapofGlencoe]

Blatant to me the only way to progress independence from now until there is a settled will is to ask the people to vote for it in a vote.  in my opinion, every UK election, from pro-independence party point of view, should be a direct vote for independence.  The first line in any manifesto should make this clear.  No-one is going to concede a referendum on opinion polls.  Do it in an election where there's no prospect of governing day-to-day policies and the eyes of the world are on the UK.  You can then correctly say normal government is in Holyrood so you're not taking eye off people's daily priorities.  The UK election is well made for our purposes.  A four, five yearly check in an election is the best way to continue the cause in a meaningful way in the medium term too for those in the gravy train/"pragmatic" wing.  The more radical elements get their vote to go out campaigning for.  It means there is time to target certain dates in the diary.

If you get the majority of votes and London still say no, then it builds to maybe using a HR election and at least you have done your side of the bargain.  International pressure will only come if it's shown we want it in an election, not opinion polls. 

If you don't get the majority of votes, you consider what you need to do in the next UK election...

Probably gone over this umpteen times now but I don't think there is any alternatives.  None of the other ideas seem to have any better success.  At least this leaves expressing a view in our citizens' hands.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by PapofGlencoe

[aaid]

47 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-you-do-it/

So that’s basically :

1. dissolve the Scottish Parliament.  
2. fight the election with every party having the same manifesto.

And that’s it, there’s nothing, nothing about what happens next.

What happens when the UKG says “now is not the time”. Which they’ve done every time there’s been a elected mandate since 2014, what’s different this time around?

[aaid]

21 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Blatant to me the only way to progress independence from now until there is a settled will is to ask the people to vote for it in a vote.  in my opinion, every UK election, from pro-independence party point of view, should be a direct vote for independence.  The first line in any manifesto should make this clear.  No-one is going to concede a referendum on opinion polls.  Do it in an election where there's no prospect of governing day-to-day policies and the eyes of the world are on the UK.  You can then correctly say normal government is in Holyrood so you're not taking eye off people's daily priorities.  The UK election is well made for our purposes.  A four, five yearly check in an election is the best way to continue the cause in a meaningful way in the medium term too for those in the gravy train/"pragmatic" wing.  The more radical elements get their vote to go out campaigning for.  It means there is time to target certain dates in the diary.

If you get the majority of votes and London still say no, then it builds to maybe using a HR election and at least you have done your side of the bargain.  International pressure will only come if it's shown we want it in an election, not opinion polls. 

If you don't get the majority of votes, you consider what you need to do in the next UK election...

Probably gone over this umpteen times now but I don't think there is any alternatives.  None of the other ideas seem to have any better success.  At least this leaves expressing a view in our citizens' hands.

 

You’re 100% right.  But for some people building the level of support necessary is either too difficult or isn't quick enough. 

[mariokempes]

16 hours ago, Orraloon said:

What would your plan be?

 

March on York

[daviebee]

11 hours ago, aaid said:

So that’s basically :

1. dissolve the Scottish Parliament.  
2. fight the election with every party having the same manifesto.

And that’s it, there’s nothing, nothing about what happens next.

What happens when the UKG says “now is not the time”. Which they’ve done every time there’s been a elected mandate since 2014, what’s different this time around?

You could ask yourself the same question about the SNP's latest nonsensical idea.

[Caledonian Craig]

9 hours ago, daviebee said:

You could ask yourself the same question about the SNP's latest nonsensical idea.

I hate to break it to you and anyone else having a pop at everything that moves at the SNP - but nobody has a plan/idea on how to get independence. Political or non-political people and that includes Salmond and Alba have a plan to independence because there is not a feasible one.

Scotland has been decapitated politically by the legal chains that bind it to Westminster rule. In short unless Westminster agree to us holding an independence referendum then its a no go. And there are too many arse-licking unionists residing in Scotland just now to force real pressure on Westminster.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Ally Bongo]

23 hours ago, aaid said:

So that’s basically :

1. dissolve the Scottish Parliament.  
2. fight the election with every party having the same manifesto.

And that’s it, there’s nothing, nothing about what happens next.

What happens when the UKG says “now is not the time”. Which they’ve done every time there’s been a elected mandate since 2014, what’s different this time around?

 

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I hate to break it to you and anyone else having a pop at everything that moves at the SNP - but nobody has a plan/idea on how to get independence. Political or non-political people and that includes Salmond and Alba have a plan to independence because there is not a feasible one.

Scotland has been decapitated politically by the legal chains that bind it to Westminster rule. In short unless Westminster agree to us holding an independence referendum then its a no go. And there are too many arse-licking unionists residing in Scotland just now to force real pressure on Westminster.

Did neither of you actually read the Wings link on how to do it ?