Coronavirus

[ParisInAKilt]

Despite my flirtation with things that would be considered conspiracy leaning in the past, I was happy to take the vaccine and consider myself extremely lucky to be in Australia during all of this, even if it’s meant not seeing family, many others have had it worse. Just glad my parents haven’t been affected by it so far. 

In saying that I wouldn’t tell someone to get the vaccination and some of the government measures don’t quite sit right but then again I wouldn’t want to be the one in their position making difficult decisions. 

[phart]

54 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Despite my flirtation with things that would be considered conspiracy leaning in the past, I was happy to take the vaccine and consider myself extremely lucky to be in Australia during all of this, even if it’s meant not seeing family, many others have had it worse. Just glad my parents haven’t been affected by it so far. 

In saying that I wouldn’t tell someone to get the vaccination and some of the government measures don’t quite sit right but then again I wouldn’t want to be the one in their position making difficult decisions. 

There are conspiracies and governments over-reach and become authoritarian. Companies also do dodgy shit.

None of this is evidence though each claim needs to be evidenced.

We're 7.2 billion doses into the vaccine, hospitalisation data/ death data etc all speaks to their efficacy. There's been no selection pressue mutations that we know of yet.

That's just for covid, vaccines have been proven again and again to work in the vast majority of cases. There's been mistakes in their application, polio vaccine fucked up, some people react badly to them too.

 

[thplinth]

Three different coronavirus shots – those mainly available in the US and Europe – have shown a dramatic decline in efficacy over time, a study of nearly 800,000 Americans reveals.

Covid-19 vaccine effectiveness against both infection and death was studied in three US approved jabs – the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna mRNA shots, and the Janssen viral vector vaccine.

Covid vaccinations ‘not sufficient’ in preventing Delta variant spread, almost equal to unvaccinated – UK studyCovid vaccinations ‘not sufficient’ in preventing Delta variant spread, almost equal to unvaccinated – UK study

Having analyzed data from 780,225 US veterans of different ages and sexes between February and October, researchers came to a disturbing conclusion. Vaccine protection against Covid-19 infection dropped from 89.2% at its highest to a low of 13.1%, according to a joint study by the Public Health Institute, the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, and the University of Texas Health Science Center, published in the Science journal on Thursday.

While effectiveness against infection in March was 89.2% for Moderna, 86.9% for Pfizer, and 86.4% for Janssen, by September there were massive declines to 58%, 43%, and 13% respectively.

The emergence and dominance of the Delta strain of the virus during the time of the study may have played a role, researchers said, adding that vaccine protection waned across all studied age groups.

More than 26,000 positive PCR tests occurred in some 498,000 fully vaccinated veterans.

The authors said the pattern of breakthrough infections shows a “worrisome temporal trend.” While the analysis covers 2.7 percent of the US population, other domestic and international studies have shown significantly waning efficacy.

https://www.rt.com/usa/539465-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-veterans-study/

Ok so the vaccines are not waning, the virus is getting hotter. There is a big difference.

This is the same pattern that played out in the poultry industry with their leaky vaccines. I am not saying it is the same thing (too early to say) but it sure looks like it so far. There leaky vaccines forced the virus to adapt to survive without killing it off sufficiently.

We are similarly forcing the virus down evolutionary paths to survive but without killing it off (enough) and it is just a numbers game (which we cant win) before a variant comes along that causes a huge problem. I.e. eventually the virus will get ahead of the vaccines (it already is but I mean significantly ahead). Then all of the 'benefits' of the vaccines you see now will turn out to be huge false economies.

Also it backs up what the doctors in the roundtable discussion above I posted were discussing. That these boosters are pointless anyway as the vaccines are based on the first virus and not these new variants. It wont stop you catching it and it wont stop you passing it on. Which makes an absolute mockery of the passport crap. Total joke that is simply there to coerce people to take now ineffective and potentially dangerous vaccines.

I think what is going on is very reckless. Vaccines have a place but what we are doing (pushing them on kids now) is being driven by greed and corruption.

Edited November 6, 2021 by thplinth

[thplinth]

The sole remaining boast of the vaccines that is left standing is that 'if you catch it it wont be so bad'. 

Gone is any pretense now it will protect you catching it, suffering from it, or passing it on.

All that remains is that when you do get it, it wont be so bad as it would be were you not vaccinated.

Well that is exactly the same as what they now say about the poultry industry. The vaccines wont stop the birds getting the virus or passing it on but it does allow them to survive it (long enough to be slaughtered and sold).

What should concern you though is that if they stopped vaccinating the birds they reckoned they would all be wiped out in two weeks. That is how deadly the virus is now after they forced it to evolve for many generations by using leaky vaccines.

They took a problematic virus and through a regime of leaky vaccinations they got into an arms race with the virus. Now every bird must be vaccinated just to survive. They are entirely dependent on the vaccine manufacturers just to survive.

Is that what you want? I think it is maybe what the big pharmaceutical companies and creepy wee bastards like Anthony Fauci want.

Personally I'd rather face the music now rather than later when it will be far far worse. Not going to happen though.

[phart]

If the virus was getting "hotter" it would show up in the genomic survey, we've had this discussion. Where is the evidence of antigenic drift in the genomic sequencing? We have AY.2 and that's it.

You think it's getting hotter cause you heard Joe Rogan talk about one paper by professor Andrew Read, let's look at what Andrew Read is saying about this interpetation.

“What really gets me, apart from the fact that I do think this is a public health threat–[that] people who are arguing against vaccinations are doing other people great harm. Apart from that, I really get concerned that this sort of disinformation, or this inappropriate interpretation means that it's very difficult for us scientists to actually ask serious questions about how evolution might proceed and get a good look at it because we get this concern that our work will be taken and twisted.”

The study was tweeted a thousand times last night, according to our metrics,” says Read. “I had a physician in England reach out to me on Friday asking me to [clarify] because his patients are using my paper to argue against vaccination.” Calling into question the effectiveness of vaccines was never the intention of his 2015 study. “I am genuinely shocked. I've been doing work for 20 years now on how vaccines might drive the evolution of viruses. There's nothing in any of that 20 years work that argues in favor of withholding lifesaving vaccines. It's just shocking to me.

“Those of us who are very interested in the way the evolution might go, have trouble doing the work, or at least talking about it, because of the concern that people like Joe Rogan will twist it and use it in the wrong way.”

Got to love the absolute Dunning-kruger effect of thinking that even though you couldn't tell the difference between a plant cell and a human cell you know how to interpet an esoteric biology paper better than the person who wrote it and is explicitly saying how dangerous and wrong said interpetation is. While posting clips about how stupid people are dangerous. Just a stunning over estimation of ones competence.

[Lamia]

Were the vaccine's not designed to reduce hospitalisations and deaths and to to reduce spread with any reduction in  catching and spread being hoped for but a bonus. That is how I recall it.

[phart]

1 minute ago, Lamia said:

Were the vaccine's not designed to reduce hospitalisations and deaths and to to reduce spread with any reduction in  catching and spread being hoped for but a bonus. That is how I recall it.

They were designed to stop symptomatic infection which is what they were measured in. I've already provided contemporary tweets by experts in the field showing that is what they were for. Evidence to the contrary is not there. Hence why it hasn't been produced.

[Morrisandmoo]

41 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The sole remaining boast of the vaccines that is left standing is that 'if you catch it it wont be so bad'. 

Gone is any pretense now it will protect you catching it, suffering from it, or passing it on.

All that remains is that when you do get it, it wont be so bad as it would be were you not vaccinated.

Well that is exactly the same as what they now say about the poultry industry. The vaccines wont stop the birds getting the virus or passing it on but it does allow them to survive it (long enough to be slaughtered and sold).

What should concern you though is that if they stopped vaccinating the birds they reckoned they would all be wiped out in two weeks. That is how deadly the virus is now after they forced it to evolve for many generations by using leaky vaccines.

They took a problematic virus and through a regime of leaky vaccinations they got into an arms race with the virus. Now every bird must be vaccinated just to survive. They are entirely dependent on the vaccine manufacturers just to survive.

Is that what you want? I think it is maybe what the big pharmaceutical companies and creepy wee bastards like Anthony Fauci want.

Personally I'd rather face the music now rather than later when it will be far far worse. Not going to happen though.

You need to balance this against the fact that the immune system itself is leaky and drives "hotter" virus.

Yet we evolved immune systems none the less. We got into this arms race with other species long ago. We could have just kept the peace and died quietly. But instead we wake up each day and fight viruses! We are entirely dependant on our immune system to survive. Vaccination is an aid to that "leaky" system.

The chicken study doesn't reveal to us a pre-determined destination for the human race and the Covid vaccine. It's just a risk mate. It's a risk with every "leaky" vaccine. It's a risk in a do-nothing scenario. It's a risk with antibiotics (but thank fuck for those). It's also a matter of degrees, rather than being all or nothing.

That risk has consumed you and you apply great weight to it. Fine. But for me I balance the great chicken study against all the other weight of science presented to me (e.g. see phart's posts) and infinite possibilities. Including the fact that the virus appears to get "hotter" in unvaccinated groups quicker than in vaccinated groups. Which is obviously contradictory to what you think.

Anyway we've been round this loop before - chickens and Joe Rogan seem to be a recurring theme. Your not prepared to listen to others or address contradictory evidence and the chicken study is still the chicken study. So here we remain.

[phart]

It also reduces the chance of catching it, shortens the shedding time if you do get it, however for AZ(current data shows for 2 AZ doses) after 12 weeks if you do end up with a breakthrough infection you have the same chance of passing it on as an unvaccinated person. However an unvaccinated person has a higher chance of catching it, so it's a net reduction in transmission even with the waning factor.

[phart]

14 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

You need to balance this against the fact that the immune system itself is leaky and drives "hotter" virus.

Yet we evolved immune systems none the less. We got into this arms race with other species long ago. We could have just kept the peace and died quietly. But instead we wake up each day and fight viruses! We are entirely dependant on our immune system to survive. Vaccination is an aid to that "leaky" system.

The chicken study doesn't reveal to us a pre-determined destination for the human race and the Covid vaccine. It's just a risk mate. It's a risk with every "leaky" vaccine. It's a risk in a do-nothing scenario. It's a risk with antibiotics (but thank fuck for those). It's also a matter of degrees, rather than being all or nothing.

That risk has consumed you and you apply great weight to it. Fine. But for me I balance the great chicken study against all the other weight of science presented to me (e.g. see phart's posts) and infinite possibilities. Including the fact that the virus appears to get "hotter" in unvaccinated groups quicker than in vaccinated groups. Which is obviously contradictory to what you think.

Anyway we've been round this loop before - chickens and Joe Rogan seem to be a recurring theme. Your not prepared to listen to others or address contradictory evidence and the chicken study is still the chicken study. So here we remain.

Selection pressure is always a risk.

Only virus mutations that evade immune response can continue to replicate. Thereby we create an evolutionary direction where only viruses that evade the vaccine spread. It may be if it evolves to evade immune response so it can spread quicker it may then be less dangerous. It could also be more dangerous. It's a possiblity in both immune systems that have been primed by vaccination and also by infection. Which is why you want to reduce prevalence.

Almost everyone is going to catch this, therefore it's going to encounter a host with an immune response be it by previous infecton or vaccination. Vaccination reduces the severity of the outcome hence why vaccination is seen as the best way forward.

[thplinth]

This is well done... 😀

 

[thplinth]

Whistle blower in the BMJ about a pfizer jab trial. 

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

Reported on RT from the 7 minute mark.

https://www.rt.com/shows/news/539575-rtnews-november-07-12msk/

Again the profit motive seems paramount... 

[phart]

Unblinding trials defeats the purpose of having them in the first place. Seems they cut a lot of corners, like we had with the immensa PCR stuff over here.

I see they're still getting contracts as well.

Fortunately we have real world data for a few billion pfizier doses now

[thplinth]

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr speaks to the 2021 Ron Paul Institute Washington Conference on "Pandemic and the Road to Totalitarianism."

https://odysee.com/@RonPaul:d/RFKJR:2

Pretty heavy stuff if he is correct. That Fauci guy... wow.

 

 

[phart]

https://theintercept.com/2021/11/01/covid-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-investigation/

Network of Right-Wing Health Care Providers Is Making Millions Off Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, Hacked Data Reveals

The data also reveals that 72,000 people paid at least $6.7 million for Covid-19 consultations promoted by America’s Frontline Doctors and vaccine conspiracist Simone Gold.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/28/covid-telehealth-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-hacked/

Edited November 8, 2021 by phart

[thplinth]

Interesting.

Japan ends vaccine-induced pandemic by legalizing IVERMECTIN, while pharma-controlled media pretends masks and vaccines were the savior

https://www.medicine.news/2021-10-29-japan-ends-vaccine-induced-pandemic-legalizing-ivermectin.html

Japan drops vax rollout, goes to Ivermectin, ENDS COVID almost overnight

https://thesecondnews.com/japan-drops-vax-rollout-goes-to-ivermectin-ends-covid-almost-overnight/

[thplinth]

Bit more on it...

THE “JAPANESE MIRACLE” YOU’RE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW ABOUT
AN ANOMALY OR A BREAKTHROUGH IN THE FIGHT AGAINST COVID?

On August 20, 2020, there were no vaccinations; yet, there were 832 new cases. A year later, after most of the population had been vaccinated, circa 70%, there were 22,301 new cases reported on August 22, 2021. In August 2021, the number of reported deaths was five times higher than in August 2020, when there were no vaccines available.
At the end of August, the Japanese medical team conducted a debrief and decided to begin massive treatment with the use of Ivermectin. 

https://savkinoleg583.medium.com/the-japanese-miracle-youre-not-supposed-to-know-about-97961e103284

You'll need google translate for this one.

https://www.fondsk.ru/news/2021/11/04/yaponskoe-chudo-o-kotorom-ne-polozheno-znat-54827.html

[Lamia]

thplinth - do you ever question your sources? It doesn't appear so because whenever anyone challenges them giving their reasons you don't seem to ever counter these? Do you actually ever read the counter links that others post because it doesn't seem you do that either.

 

I would say that this whole discussion is a waste of time because you simply post link after link and never seem to really engage with the counter arguments however at least anyone reading the thread isn't just getting a whole bunch on one sided links I suppose.

[ger intae them]

thplinth is the new scotty 😄

[thplinth]

What a joke that is coming from queen of the laughing smileys. Seriously take a look at yourself. FFS... unreal. 

[thplinth]

Yet again you have to personalize the discussion. Thick as fuck. People can make their own mind up. All I posted was 'interesting'. 

[ger intae them]

all right precious……. I mean scotty 😂

I agree, it is interesting 😉

[phart]

Japan hasn't stopped it's vacs roll-out. Hal Turner said they did but they didn't. That's the only source.

You can go to Japan's own figures and see they administered thousands upon thousands of vaccinations the day after the claim and they currently have 71% of their populace vaccinated. They also haven't approved ivermectin for us. Some Japanese guy who was a manager in a health district said ages ago they wouldn't be against using it if it was effective.

The interesting thing is how gullible people become when radicalised and see something they so desperately want to be true. Getting brainwashed by the facebook engagement AI is a riddy for your reasoning skills.

[thplinth]

A potential breakthrough treatment in Japan and you are making personal posts about me because folk are so locked in about being right on the internet about Ivermectin, HCQ or whatever. It is the most pathetic shit I have ever seen on here by far. 

The fact that Japan has ok'd its use should tell you that maybe you are not as smart as you clearly think you are on the subject of these treatments.

This could be potentially a game changer in our fight against the virus and you are making it about me and bringing Scotty into it. Jeezo...  Quite honestly I think you are fucked in the head. 😀 That is why I don't waste anytime 'interacting' on the subject.

[phart]

Japan hasn't Ok'd its use though.

Some right wing shock jock in America said it on air and now you're uncritically parrotting it on here.

So folk are taking the pish out of you for being a gullible eejit. Then you're projecting your own faults onto others. While throwing yourself a pity party to make it out you're a victim of something, while advocating violence against folk on other threads. Yet wonder why your cognitive abilities are geting treated with contempt. It is pathetic.Hell you even got the vaccine so you're like Dick Cheney egging folk to go to war, while having not even having the courage of your own convictions. It's hilarious, zeo self awareness.

An article online falsely claims Japanese authorities have abandoned the rollout of COVID-19 vaccines, instead choosing to rely on ivermectin, an anti-parasitic medication.

The claim was made in an Oct. 27 article by the Hal Turner radio show (here), a programme broadcast by the namesake far-right political commentator and previously fact-checked by Reuters here . It has also been copied and shared on other websites, including here and here .

According to the Hal Turner piece, Japan “pulled the vaccines and substituted ivermectin”, which, “in one month, wiped COVID out in that country!”

These claims are not true.

Japan’s medicines regulator, the Pharmaceuticals and Medical Devices Agency (PMDA), lists on its website the vaccines and therapeutics authorised for COVID-19 (here).

This list includes vaccines developed by Moderna, Pfizer/BioNTech and Oxford/AstraZeneca, along with the therapeutics remdesivir, baricitinib, casilibimab and sotrovimab.

There is no mention of ivermectin.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-japan-idUSL1N2RS1NO

 

Japan administered 574,739 COVID-19 vaccine doses on Oct. 27, the day the article was published, according to a vaccine tracker from Our World in Data. As of Oct. 31, Japan has distributed more than 189 million doses since launching its vaccination drive in February. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by phart