Urgent: Flower Of Scotland

[Debian]

We could always sing the sash?

[Caledonian Craig]

I don't have a problem with FOS being sung and don't expect my comments to deter anyone from singing.

The issue I have and what I have being responding to is the suggestion that belting out FOS is sending a signal to Unionists that we are not defeated etc. I honestly cant see the political significance of FOS being sung - only if it is not sung

As for taking your political protests elsewhere FOS has political connotations and more so in light of the referendum result . Pre-referendum the words could be seen as aspirational but not so much now because the reality is that the people of Scotland voted to give up sovereignty and the opportunity to be "the nation again".

Do us a favour eh? Get your dummy back.

So the vote didn't go the way we wanted - granted a disappointment. But if you think people encouraging others not to sing Flower of Scotland is anything other than counter-productive you are badly mistaken. Flower of Scotland exists as our national anthem (regardless of what the lyrics say or mean). Ask Scotland players past and present and they will tell you what it means to stand in front of us and hear Flower of Scotland resounding around the ground and how it acts to fire them up. Now if you can't or don't want to sing the anthem as means of making a political point the only thing you are offering the team as a supporter is negative vibes which we can all do without.

[Och Aye]

I'll never understand the criticism of FOS, 'backward looking' 'dirge' and all that, for me it's the greatest National Anthem in the world.

I really couldn't give a flying one what the No voters think.

However, I just know I will not be able to sing it on Saturday.

[Caledonian Craig]

I'll never understand the criticism of FOS, 'backward looking' 'dirge' and all that, for me it's the greatest National Anthem in the world.

I really couldn't give a flying one what the No voters think.

However, I just know I will not be able to sing it on Saturday.

Given up have you? But for why did you sing it two years ago when only 20% (in polls) backed independence and before that when the figure was lower. Flower of Scotland was still sung then with great feeling even though independence was far less likely than it is now.

[Thomson]

FOS is even more meaningful to me post referendum. When will we see your likes again ?

Some time soon I hope, " the dream will never die"

Soar Alba

FoS has never been more appropriate in my opinion. It's a song of defiance and hope, two things which are prevalent all over Scotland just now and which will continue to grow. It's our country, our team, our song. We should lift the fuckin roof off unionist central with it next weekend - let them hear us.

I think all that's happening here is that different people are taking differing lengths of time to come to terms with what has happened and I believe we'll all get there in the end. Some folk are still a bit raw.

ASC, you don't half talk a lot of auld sh1te sometimes. You berate the Yes campaign for "not having all the answers" but you know full well that is not always possible. With every country that has ever become independent there has been a "leap of faith" element to it. Nobody ever gained anything without risking anything. That is not the fault of Alex Salmond or the Yes campaign. I don't know what "answers" you are specifically talking about, but let's assume currency is one of them. The only reason Yes weren't able to give a definitive answer was because of the games being played by Westminster. Anyone with half a brain knows that in the event if a Yes vote a currency union is exactly what would have occurred. Furthermore Yes clearly stated their contingency as being taking the pound anyway. Under the circumstances I fail to see what other answers people felt necessary. Similarly with the EU question, Yes were up against a couple of Euro bureaucrats with a vested interest putting about negative statements without ever categorically proving that we would not be admitted. All that Yes were able to do was put forward a sensible, rational case as to why the notion of Scotland being thrown out or not admitted was ridiculous. So there were perhaps the two biggest so called risks we had to take, both of which I believe were well mitigated by Yes. Unfortunately 2 million selfish sh1tebags disagreed with me.

Not going to try and say other people should not sing it - it's up to them. It's not for me though.

I do worry that I will find it very cringy when I hear it though. I hope not but that's the way it is.

It's all in your heid pal.

If I see someone not singing it, I will be throwing my Pie at them.

IMO, there is no better time to sing the FOS than now.

I'm more than proud of my yes vote, I was as broken as the next man but the only way to pick ourselves up is with positivity. Dont give these britnats the satisfaction, the 45 need to stick together with a show of unity.

The people who have the dilemma whether to sing it or not is the No voters.

Belt it out. Be proud.

If it was a "stony silence" then the unionist shitebags would love it, that'll be us having given up, capitulated, gone grovelling just like they do so baws te that, they're gettin telt in no uncertain terms that this is nowhere near over, we gained massively, we are now only one step away, bring it on.

I think like most other folk going on Saturday i have totally toyed with how i will feel come Saturday's anthems. The feeling the vast majority of Scotland fans felt early doors on the friday morning of that our hearts had been ripped out and every bit of passion we had for great country had been kicked into touch.

Personally i have never felt such a combination of dejection, embarrassment, disgust anger and just about every other negative emotion immaginable, we all pretty much had an idea that we'd feel pretty low if we became the first country in the modern world to turn down a chance to govern ourselves, but i dont think any of us realised just how low we would feel and just how far reaching theat feeling would impact our everyday lifes and even intrests hobbys and.....fitba.

No club or country defeat ever came close to the feeling 45% of the country felt when the reality of what our own country had voted for became clear, and hopefully it's a feeling none of us will ever have to endure again.

However, after a hell of a lot of thought it has became crystal clear to me that THIS time at THIS venue it is an absolute must we dont give up on our beliefs and our passion that we have for our country, a passion many of the 55% dont have and never will have.

I completley understand those that say they almost feel sick at thought of singing a song that up until the 18th of September meant SO much to us all, and now appears to mean so little, i get that, and get the feeling that we have had our passion ripped out of us.....However it should be the opposite.

We have only 1 chance to show that we are not beat, we are not a puppet nation and that we as passionate about our country as ever. A half hearted version of FOS only gives a message to the twats we saw in the videos in George Square that 'they won', that our country is Britain ,and that Scotland and its ambition to be free and our own nation is now dead.

Please remember the videos of the cretins above when the pipes start up, please remember that while it was a huge huge chance missed, that ultimately it IS going to happen, and that its up to the 45% of people to keep what we had and gave and hopefully many of the duped 55% will not make the same mistake twice.

Politics and football dont mix, but this was and is very different... we dont give up on country when they fail on the pitch nor should we give up on our country because it failed at the ballot box.

SING IT LOUDER AND PROUDER THAN EVER AND SEND A MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO THINK AND HOPE WE WILL NEVER BE A NATION AGAIN...

'STAND UP FOR THE 45 SHOULD BE THE MOST FREQUENT SONG ON SATURDAY', A LOUD AND CLEAR MESSAGE TO EVERYONE THAT WE WILL RISE AGAIN....AND A LOT SOONER THAN MANY PEOPLE REALISE.

My tuppence is that I voted Yes, as did another 1.6 million. I've no reason to feel embarassed nor cringe by singing FOS. I can see where folk are coming from by not wanting to sing it, but, as the Proclaimers' song 'What do you do?' goes:"What do you do when minority means you?". You keep on fighting. I will try to make Saturday night the loudest I've sung FOS, even if the stadium as a whole doesn't give the loudest rendition.

[Och Aye]

Given up have you? But for why did you sing it two years ago when only 20% (in polls) backed independence and before that when the figure was lower. Flower of Scotland was still sung then with great feeling even though independence was far less likely than it is now.

No not given up at all in fact I now know it is now a matter of when not if we get independence. I am still too pissed off however to bring myself to sing FOS just now, hopefully I'll feel different on the day. That's just how I feel at the moment - no political point being made - and there will be plenty like me so close to such a gutting referendum result. So I would ask guys with your point of view not to dig anyone up about not singing it on Saturday.

[Caledonian Craig]

No not given up at all in fact I now know it is now a matter of when not if we get independence. I am still too pissed off however to bring myself to sing FOS just now, hopefully I'll feel different on the day. That's just how I feel at the moment - no political point being made - and there will be plenty like me so close to such a gutting referendum result. So I would ask guys with your point of view not to dig anyone up about not singing it on Saturday.

No not digging up at all but just find the viewpoint very odd indeed. If anything is needed now it is a show of defiance and not singing our national anthem smacks of a form of surrender.

[tomtscotland]

I actually hope people do sing it.....but for some it may be a choker....at least at first.

As I may have posted here ...I couldn't watch Loch Lomond being sung on Ryder Cup Concert.

When you've invested a lot of time in the campaign ...it is not an easy to come to terms with the fact that the Lion went back in the cage even though the door was open.

[Khana Lagur]

I've been gargling with hot honey and lemon tincture for the past week to get my voice in tip-top condition for singing FoS on Saturday.

[The Laud]

Sorry but anyone refusing to sing our national anthem is doing a dis-service to the players and the team. No two ways about it. And what it achieves I'll be buggered if I know.

Sorry if you feel that way craig.as ive said before i will not be singing it and will probably sit greeting with my head in my hands just thinking of what could have been.

I will be shouting at the top of my voice the rest of the game supporting the team.

[The Laud]

Do us a favour eh? Get your dummy back.

So the vote didn't go the way we wanted - granted a disappointment. But if you think people encouraging others not to sing Flower of Scotland is anything other than counter-productive you are badly mistaken. Flower of Scotland exists as our national anthem (regardless of what the lyrics say or mean). Ask Scotland players past and present and they will tell you what it means to stand in front of us and hear Flower of Scotland resounding around the ground and how it acts to fire them up. Now if you can't or don't want to sing the anthem as means of making a political point the only thing you are offering the team as a supporter is negative vibes which we can all do without.

Some of the players ie.alan mcgregor being a unioist couldnt give a monkeys fcuk about FOS.

[WeLuvIrnBru]

Some of the players ie.alan mcgregor being a unioist couldnt give a monkeys fcuk about FOS.

Yes, but most do! It would hardly uninspire McGregor into a bad performance! Not that he is fit to play in this game anyway. The important thing is to get right behind the team!

Let's be positive about the future, we will not gain independence moping about it! We will gain independence my encouraging more people that it is in our country's best interests, for the next referendum....

Looking forward to Saturday now! Bring it on!

[Lamia]

I think like most other folk going on Saturday i have totally toyed with how i will feel come Saturday's anthems. The feeling the vast majority of Scotland fans felt early doors on the friday morning of that our hearts had been ripped out and every bit of passion we had for great country had been kicked into touch.

Personally i have never felt such a combination of dejection, embarrassment, disgust anger and just about every other negative emotion immaginable, we all pretty much had an idea that we'd feel pretty low if we became the first country in the modern world to turn down a chance to govern ourselves, but i dont think any of us realised just how low we would feel and just how far reaching theat feeling would impact our everyday lifes and even intrests hobbys and.....fitba.

No club or country defeat ever came close to the feeling 45% of the country felt when the reality of what our own country had voted for became clear, and hopefully it's a feeling none of us will ever have to endure again.

However, after a hell of a lot of thought it has became crystal clear to me that THIS time at THIS venue it is an absolute must we dont give up on our beliefs and our passion that we have for our country, a passion many of the 55% dont have and never will have.

I completley understand those that say they almost feel sick at thought of singing a song that up until the 18th of September meant SO much to us all, and now appears to mean so little, i get that, and get the feeling that we have had our passion ripped out of us.....However it should be the opposite.

We have only 1 chance to show that we are not beat, we are not a puppet nation and that we as passionate about our country as ever. A half hearted version of FOS only gives a message to the twats we saw in the videos in George Square that 'they won', that our country is Britain ,and that Scotland and its ambition to be free and our own nation is now dead.

Please remember the videos of the cretins above when the pipes start up, please remember that while it was a huge huge chance missed, that ultimately it IS going to happen, and that its up to the 45% of people to keep what we had and gave and hopefully many of the duped 55% will not make the same mistake twice.

Politics and football dont mix, but this was and is very different... we dont give up on country when they fail on the pitch nor should we give up on our country because it failed at the ballot box.

SING IT LOUDER AND PROUDER THAN EVER AND SEND A MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO THINK AND HOPE WE WILL NEVER BE A NATION AGAIN...

'STAND UP FOR THE 45 SHOULD BE THE MOST FREQUENT SONG ON SATURDAY', A LOUD AND CLEAR MESSAGE TO EVERYONE THAT WE WILL RISE AGAIN....AND A LOT SOONER THAN MANY PEOPLE REALISE.

This really is a great post and i can fully appreciate what you are saying but unfortunately I just can't feel it Maybe things will change over time but that won't be this week or next. This meant so much to me I reserve the right to feel like this for a bit longer

[Caledonian Craig]

Yes, but most do! It would hardly uninspire McGregor into a bad performance! Not that he is fit to play in this game anyway. The important thing is to get right behind the team!

Let's be positive about the future, we will not gain independence moping about it! We will gain independence my encouraging more people that it is in our country's best interests, for the next referendum....

Looking forward to Saturday now! Bring it on!

Bleedin' spot on.

I am there to support the team in whatever way I can for the whole match which means applauding each player out onto the pitch during warm-up, cheering them onto the pitch singing the national anthem and cheering every pass and tackle we make and get behind the team. If we can't bring ourselves to do that then what is the point of calling us supporters?

[Caledonian Craig]

This really is a great post and i can fully appreciate what you are saying but unfortunately I just can't feel it Maybe things will change over time but that won't be this week or next. This meant so much to me I reserve the right to feel like this for a bit longer

Did you think independence was imminent two years ago when polls had independence vote at 20% and did you sing the national anthem at that point?

[Langtonian]

Sorry if you feel that way craig.as ive said before i will not be singing it and will probably sit greeting with my head in my hands just thinking of what could have been.

I will be shouting at the top of my voice the rest of the game supporting the team.

you won't sing fos but you will shout at the top of your voice for the rest of the game supporting your national team?:confused: Edited October 7, 2014 by Langtonian

[Neil L]

redfraz, this is brilliant.

[Lamia]

Did you think independence was imminent two years ago when polls had independence vote at 20% and did you sing the national anthem at that point?

I had no idea what people thought - they had never been asked and chosen not to rise now. So forgive me if I think it is a bit embarrassing to sing that we can. Obviously we still can but saying No Thanks does some what undermine the statement

[Grim Jim]

Lamia, we are not The Borg; minorities do have a voice, particularly 45% ones. I still feel sick about the result, but at all not shocked. These things take time. More than some of us have.

There's nothing shameful or cringeworthy in you belting out that we can be the nation again.

Another point for all... There's debate here as to whether to sing or be silent to make a point. Let's not end up with a pathetic half way house.

Before the ref, I thought our anthem would be redundant regardless of which way the vote went (we've won, or we've had it), but came round to the conclusion that even if this is the final act of Spartacus, we need to gie it laldy!

OK, I know. 2 film references too many

[RenfrewBlue]

Did you think independence was imminent two years ago when polls had independence vote at 20% and did you sing the national anthem at that point?

What have polls got to do with anything? We thought that we could gain independence if given the chance, sadly 55% of the people living in North Britain did not agree.

I put a lot of time and effort into the Yes campaign despite never having campaigned or been a member of a political party before. I did it to try and educate people into wanting to stand on their own two feet. I still feel gutted and will do for some time. I have not stopped campaigning nor will I until we are free. I do not however feel the same pride I once did in saying that I'm Scottish as Scotland has ceased to exist as a country now. Because of this FoS has lost its meaning and engenders nothing but bitterness and disgust in me now. I won't be singing it and cannot understand why anyone still thinks it is appropriate. Especially Unionists. If you voted No and you sing FoS, I hope you suffer miserable guilt over what you've done for all of your days.

[Caledonian Craig]

What have polls got to do with anything? We thought that we could gain independence if given the chance, sadly 55% of the people living in North Britain did not agree.

I put a lot of time and effort into the Yes campaign despite never having campaigned or been a member of a political party before. I did it to try and educate people into wanting to stand on their own two feet. I still feel gutted and will do for some time. I have not stopped campaigning nor will I until we are free. I do not however feel the same pride I once did in saying that I'm Scottish as Scotland has ceased to exist as a country now. Because of this FoS has lost its meaning and engenders nothing but bitterness and disgust in me now. I won't be singing it and cannot understand why anyone still thinks it is appropriate. Especially Unionists. If you voted No and you sing FoS, I hope you suffer miserable guilt over what you've done for all of your days.

Polls are a deadly accurate indication and so two years ago independence was so much further away (20%) and yet there was none of this defeatist talk of not singing the national anthem then was there? If ref had been two years ago the loss would have been much greater (that is a certain fact) yet I presume all the no singers now still sung the national anthem then which I cannot fathom out.

For me far far too much is being read into lyrics of the anthem here. The national anthem is what it is and I'd expect fans to join in heartily to give the players the necessary boost, create a fiery atmosphere to intimidate opponents and lift our players spirits to the highest level possible - that is the ethos as far as I am concerned of the national anthem at Scotland matches. Do you honestly think England fans are 100% royalists? Of course not but they all join in and sing the national anthem with feeling. Do you think the French supporters don't contain some royalists but they still sing Les Marseilles because it is their national anthem even though it glorifies the French Revolution. Heck how many Scotland fans CANNOT stand The Sound of Music as a film but merrily churn out Doe a Deer every match and join in.

Since you seem (very wrongly in my opinion) to think Scotland has ceased to exist as a country then I take it you will no longer attend Scotland matches as you feel it will be living a lie so to speak? Sorry but we can take the referendum result two ways. We lost it but a mere 5% swing is all it would have taken to swing it the other way so you can either take the positives from that, realise that genie is out of the bottle and realise this issue will not go away and see it as a massive base to build on - and a base we weren't even at two years ago I may add. Or you can choose to sulk, knuckle under and give up and say sod it Scotland can go to hell as I am not interested anymore and display a complete lack of fight which would be extremely odd considering you day you put so much into the independence vote. That being the case you should not be ready to give up the fight - I know the SNP hasn't and their groundswell in members since the Ref vote suggest they are growing in strength and support - not diminishing. Keep the faith and the rewards will come. Give up and all your work will have been for nothing.

Back to the national anthem I will sing it and supported yes vote and fully hope all Scotland fans will band together as, first and foremost fans of the Scotland team, as it is business as usual for the national team and they need our 100% support throughout this campaign and that includes singing the national anthem.

[crawf]

On Sat we all want a win the 45% real

Scots and the others who are kid on type.

I do hope the kid on Scots don't sing

Flower of Scotland .

The nawbags please Leave the anthem to

Real Scots.

[Caledonian Craig]

On Sat we all want a win the 45% real

Scots and the others who are kid on type.

I do hope the kid on Scots don't sing

Flower of Scotland .

The nawbags please Leave the anthem to

Real Scots.

Sorry but that is not constructive on the political front. Sure it may make you and others feel better but for future referendum which will surely come we should now be looking to bring on-board as many of the 55% as possible and ostracising them by urging them they have no right to sing the anthem does not help that cause.

[Lamia]

Polls are a deadly accurate indication and so two years ago independence was so much further away (20%) and yet there was none of this defeatist talk of not singing the national anthem then was there? If ref had been two years ago the loss would have been much greater (that is a certain fact) yet I presume all the no singers now still sung the national anthem then which I cannot fathom out.

For me far far too much is being read into lyrics of the anthem here. The national anthem is what it is and I'd expect fans to join in heartily to give the players the necessary boost, create a fiery atmosphere to intimidate opponents and lift our players spirits to the highest level possible - that is the ethos as far as I am concerned of the national anthem at Scotland matches. Do you honestly think England fans are 100% royalists? Of course not but they all join in and sing the national anthem with feeling. Do you think the French supporters don't contain some royalists but they still sing Les Marseilles because it is their national anthem even though it glorifies the French Revolution. Heck how many Scotland fans CANNOT stand The Sound of Music as a film but merrily churn out Doe a Deer every match and join in.

I cannot believe you are saying the lyrics of our national anthem that was written specifically about the belief that Scotland could become independent are not significant.

On GStQ - if our national anthem was about saving someone propping up the class system I wouldn't sing it.

Since you seem (very wrongly in my opinion) to think Scotland has ceased to exist as a country then I take it you will no longer attend Scotland matches as you feel it will be living a lie so to speak? Sorry but we can take the referendum result two ways. We lost it but a mere 5% swing is all it would have taken to swing it the other way so you can either take the positives from that, realise that genie is out of the bottle and realise this issue will not go away and see it as a massive base to build on - and a base we weren't even at two years ago I may add. Or you can choose to sulk, knuckle under and give up and say sod it Scotland can go to hell as I am not interested anymore and display a complete lack of fight which would be extremely odd considering you day you put so much into the independence vote. That being the case you should not be ready to give up the fight

Did you read what he posted because it doesn't look very much like you did.

[Caledonian Craig]

Lamia that post was to Renfrew Blue.

I will only add this people should keep politics out of football. The referendum is done (for now) and I will be at Ibrox on Saturday to support Scotland to the maximum of my ability to the maximum of positivity. In my opinion people saying they will refuse to sing the national anthem only brings negativity to the support - not what the national football team needs or wants.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Caledonian Craig