Toepoke Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, DOUBLE A said: Rafa oot Some game right enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Tennis is wonderful. Kerber vs Muguruza and Rafa vs Muller were wonderful spectacles. An absolute disgrace that the former was relegated to court two. Wimbledon's continual disrespect for the woman's game is saddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Parklife said: An absolute disgrace that the former was relegated to court two. Wimbledon's continual disrespect for the woman's game is saddening. Indeed, I noticed French Open winner Ostapenko was playing on Court 12 today. I guess it doesn't help when Wimbledon try and cram both 4th rounds into the same day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 9 hours ago, Toepoke said: Indeed, I noticed French Open winner Ostapenko was playing on Court 12 today. I guess it doesn't help when Wimbledon try and cram both 4th rounds into the same day... "Tradition" innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I noticed that Anderson v Querry was on Court 18 while they had Boys an Girls singles games on Court 4. Surely the "elite" games on both the men's and woman's side should take priority of the top courts. And why this insistence of waiting till 1pm to start? They could easily start at 10am with the lower seeded games and avoid things like having to move games over to the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Fairbairn said: I noticed that Anderson v Querry was on Court 18 while they had Boys an Girls singles games on Court 4. Surely the "elite" games on both the men's and woman's side should take priority of the top courts. And why this insistence of waiting till 1pm to start? They could easily start at 10am with the lower seeded games and avoid things like having to move games over to the next day. Djokovic is starting at 1200. The power of the TAMB never ceases to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 21 minutes ago, Fairbairn said: I noticed that Anderson v Querry was on Court 18 while they had Boys an Girls singles games on Court 4. Surely the "elite" games on both the men's and woman's side should take priority of the top courts. Court 18 has a bigger capacity than court 4. 21 minutes ago, Fairbairn said: And why this insistence of waiting till 1pm to start? They could easily start at 10am with the lower seeded games and avoid things like having to move games over to the next day. A number of factors. Primarily, to keep attendances high and have the courts full while play is taking place. You'll notice at Roland Garros that all courts start at 11am, with even the main courts being half empty for the majority of the opening match. Play starts later on show courts at Wimbledon to avoid this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 14 hours ago, Parklife said: Tennis is wonderful. Kerber vs Muguruza and Rafa vs Muller were wonderful spectacles. An absolute disgrace that the former was relegated to court two. Wimbledon's continual disrespect for the woman's game is saddening. 14 hours ago, Parklife said: Tennis is wonderful. Kerber vs Muguruza and Rafa vs Muller were wonderful spectacles. An absolute disgrace that the former was relegated to court two. Wimbledon's continual disrespect for the woman's game is saddening. Womens tennis is almost a different sport from the mens the power difference is so big. As such, it is at the moment generally considered inferior to mens in popularity, as is football rugby and most other sports. I doubt that will change anytime soon. Women tennis players are about the only sport that get parity with the men (arguably they get paid more) just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nobby said: Womens tennis is almost a different sport from the mens the power difference is so big. As such, it is at the moment generally considered inferior to mens in popularity, as is football rugby and most other sports. I doubt that will change anytime soon. It is not "inferior" at all. Total nonsense. It is less popular, definitely. However, that is partly due to the fact that it is shamefully relegated by Wimbledon time and again (Wimbledon is the only one of the 4 slams to treat the Woman's game this way) to outside courts and poor time slots. If the man's game is the only one given prime time slots and men are always shown more, then of course more people are going to be interested in that over the woman's. 4 minutes ago, Nobby said: Women tennis players are about the only sport that get parity with the men (arguably they get paid more) just the way it is. They don't get parity. They get equal pay in the 4 slams, the tournaments over the course of the year are nowhere near close to doing this though. Men will earn far more than the women just about every single week of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Parklife said: It is not "inferior" at all. Total nonsense. It is less popular, definitely. However, that is partly due to the fact that it is shamefully relegated by Wimbledon time and again (Wimbledon is the only one of the 4 slams to treat the Woman's game this way) to outside courts and poor time slots. If the man's game is the only one given prime time slots and men are always shown more, then of course more people are going to be interested in that over the woman's. They don't get parity. They get equal pay in the 4 slams, the tournaments over the course of the year are nowhere near close to doing this though. Men will earn far more than the women just about every single week of the season. I get why wimbledon don't have the women on at centre court so much until the later rounds. You just have to look at the courts at the french open when the women play, you have been there as have I and you can see how low the crowd gets on the show courts when the women play. They are getting exposure on show courts elsewhere but nobody watches it. I personally enjoy watching the womens matches, the final of the french was awesome but the fact is its just not as popular as the mens game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I heard McEnroe interviewed earlier and he made a fair point that you could look at the disparity in terms of court allocations but when you've got three of the greatest players of all time scheduled to appear plus Andy Murray as well, it would be a tough call to move some of those matches from the show courts. Those are the guys people want to see right now. I don't think that's too much of a slight on the women's game, back in the 90s for example the ladies singles was the better tournament to watch, that may happen again once time is called on the big 3.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 12 minutes ago, Parklife said: It is not "inferior" at all. Total nonsense. It is less popular, definitely. However, that is partly due to the fact that it is shamefully relegated by Wimbledon time and again (Wimbledon is the only one of the 4 slams to treat the Woman's game this way) to outside courts and poor time slots. If the man's game is the only one given prime time slots and men are always shown more, then of course more people are going to be interested in that over the woman's. They don't get parity. They get equal pay in the 4 slams, the tournaments over the course of the year are nowhere near close to doing this though. Men will earn far more than the women just about every single week of the season. In your opinion, which is fair enough. In my opinion, given a choice Id rather pay money to see a mens game and a Nadal epic like yesterday than your typical womens match 6-2 6-2 over in 45 minutes. Not saying either happens all the time but just my choice. Same typically applies to womens football, rugby etc the mens game is at another level, otherwise why arent they all competing alongside each other ? As for pay at the slams women earn considerably more than the men for the actual tennis played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 47 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: I get why wimbledon don't have the women on at centre court so much until the later rounds. You just have to look at the courts at the french open when the women play, you have been there as have I and you can see how low the crowd gets on the show courts when the women play. They are getting exposure on show courts elsewhere but nobody watches it. I personally enjoy watching the womens matches, the final of the french was awesome but the fact is its just not as popular as the mens game. That's the case for plenty of other sports, I'm not saying it will never change but ultimately its popularity that drives the financial rewards. Women footballers, cricketers, golfers etc earn nowhere near the equivalent men. If you want to highlight a sport where women are treated significantly worse than their male counterparts there are plenty of better examples imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, Nobby said: In your opinion, which is fair enough. In my opinion, given a choice Id rather pay money to see a mens game and a Nadal epic like yesterday than your typical womens match 6-2 6-2 over in 45 minutes. That's just a remarkably silly comment. The match of the tournament so far was played on Court 2 yesterday. World Number 1 vs former Wimbledon finalist. An outstanding match of great quality. The fact it's not shown to a big audience makes it much more difficult for the womens game to compete with the mens, which is always given the bigger stage! To characterise the whole of the womens game as "typical womens match 6-2 6-2 over in 45 minutes." is just downright ignorant. Symptomatic of a middle-aged guy who watches tennis for 2 weeks a year, to be fair. 10 minutes ago, Nobby said: As for pay at the slams women earn considerably more than the men for the actual tennis played. Nonsense argument which we've had pretty convincingly dismissed years ago. Are we awarding titles based on time on court or sets played? Should we time the players? Longer you spend on court, more money you get? Might as well just make every match best of 7, or 9, or 11. After all, playing more tennis = worth more money. Ostapenko actually played as many sets as Nadal did at the French Open btw... 53 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: I get why wimbledon don't have the women on at centre court so much until the later rounds. You just have to look at the courts at the french open when the women play, you have been there as have I and you can see how low the crowd gets on the show courts when the women play. They are getting exposure on show courts elsewhere but nobody watches it. I personally enjoy watching the womens matches, the final of the french was awesome but the fact is its just not as popular as the mens game. I don't agree to say the courts are empty and, even if that were true, you then have to look at the scheduling. The day i spent on Chatrier a few weeks back, the womens matches were first and last. Started at 11am and around 6:30pm. Hardly prime time slots. It's never going to be as popular if you don't give it the chance to get exposure and gain fans!! 48 minutes ago, Toepoke said: I don't think that's too much of a slight on the women's game, The World Number 1 being put on an outside court, in a last 16 match vs a former Wimbledon finalist and Grand Slam champion, isn't a slight on the women's game? Yeah, alright then. I'm sure Wimbledon would put Andy Murray vs Marin Cilic on an outside court too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Parklife said: That's just a remarkably silly comment. The match of the tournament so far was played on Court 2 yesterday. World Number 1 vs former Wimbledon finalist. An outstanding match of great quality. The fact it's not shown to a big audience makes it much more difficult for the womens game to compete with the mens, which is always given the bigger stage! To characterise the whole of the womens game as "typical womens match 6-2 6-2 over in 45 minutes." is just downright ignorant. Symptomatic of a middle-aged guy who watches tennis for 2 weeks a year, to be fair. Nonsense argument which we've had pretty convincingly dismissed years ago. Are we awarding titles based on time on court or sets played? Should we time the players? Longer you spend on court, more money you get? Might as well just make every match best of 7, or 9, or 11. After all, playing more tennis = worth more money. Ostapenko actually played as many sets as Nadal did at the French Open btw... To be fair most people in this country only watch tennis for two weeks a year. There's a reason mens tennis is given the bigger stage that's because its more popular. "After all, playing more tennis = worth more money" , you may not like it but that would appear to currently be the case. Happy to hear your views on other sports, not just the downtrodden female tennis players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, Nobby said: To be fair most people in this country only watch tennis for two weeks a year. There's a reason mens tennis is given the bigger stage that's because its more popular. It's a circular process though. You say the men get the bigger stage because they're more popular. But they are more popular because they get the bigger stage! 13 minutes ago, Nobby said: "After all, playing more tennis = worth more money" , you may not like it but that would appear to currently be the case. Nope. Otherwise we'd be rewarding players based on the basis of how long they played. That's not what happens. 13 minutes ago, Nobby said: Happy to hear your views on other sports, not just the downtrodden female tennis players What are you looking to discuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 47 minutes ago, Toepoke said: I heard McEnroe interviewed earlier and he made a fair point that you could look at the disparity in terms of court allocations but when you've got three of the greatest players of all time scheduled to appear plus Andy Murray as well, it would be a tough call to move some of those matches from the show courts. Those are the guys people want to see right now. I don't think that's too much of a slight on the women's game, back in the 90s for example the ladies singles was the better tournament to watch, that may happen again once time is called on the big 3.... 39 minutes ago, Parklife said: That's just a remarkably silly comment. The match of the tournament so far was played on Court 2 yesterday. World Number 1 vs former Wimbledon finalist. An outstanding match of great quality. The fact it's not shown to a big audience makes it much more difficult for the womens game to compete with the mens, which is always given the bigger stage! To characterise the whole of the womens game as "typical womens match 6-2 6-2 over in 45 minutes." is just downright ignorant. Symptomatic of a middle-aged guy who watches tennis for 2 weeks a year, to be fair. Nonsense argument which we've had pretty convincingly dismissed years ago. Are we awarding titles based on time on court or sets played? Should we time the players? Longer you spend on court, more money you get? Might as well just make every match best of 7, or 9, or 11. After all, playing more tennis = worth more money. Ostapenko actually played as many sets as Nadal did at the French Open btw... I don't agree to say the courts are empty and, even if that were true, you then have to look at the scheduling. The day i spent on Chatrier a few weeks back, the womens matches were first and last. Started at 11am and around 6:30pm. Hardly prime time slots. It's never going to be as popular if you don't give it the chance to get exposure and gain fans!! The World Number 1 being put on an outside court, in a last 16 match vs a former Wimbledon finalist and Grand Slam champion, isn't a slight on the women's game? Yeah, alright then. I'm sure Wimbledon would put Andy Murray vs Marin Cilic on an outside court too ok let me re-phrase, the courts aren't as full as they are when the men are on but its not all men. lesser known names, in other words those outside the big guns or a local player tend not to attract bigger crowds. When I was at Chartier & Arthur Ahse, the courts had women on at prime times. Radwanksa was on at 1pm at the french which isn't exactly a shit time to be on. At the US open in 2013 they made a huge deal of the womens game, in fact they had BJK out on court doing speeches about womens tennis. The womens game has more exposure than ever before and still it doesn't attract the crowds unless Serene is playing in the US. I completely understand where you are coming from to a certain extent but Andy Murray will attract a full house at Wimbledon whilst the female World Number 1 simply won't. Wimbledon want full courts for their prime time matches so they will play the players who attract those crowds and viewing figures. I can remember Serena having to play on small courts but she attracts the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 22 minutes ago, Parklife said: It's a circular process though. You say the men get the bigger stage because they're more popular. But they are more popular because they get the bigger stage! Nope. Otherwise we'd be rewarding players based on the basis of how long they played. That's not what happens. What are you looking to discuss? They get the bigger stage because people (two week a year merchants like me) generally prefer it. Overall its a much better spectacle. you as a purist disagree. Be boring if everyone agreed Agreed its not what happens, in general at grand slams women get paid more for less tennis. I have no issue with that. As previous posters have alluded to. The names in womens tennis currently dont inspire people as much as they do with the men. Outside of Sharapova, Williams (S&V) your average tennis fan (two weeks a year) hasnt heard of anyone else. The men have an established elite. Throw in most of us currently disagree with you and thats why the womens world number one was on an outside court. I suppose my main reason for posting was that you appeared to be highlighting that the women are being badly treated by wimbledon. In my opinion theyre not. Would Serena Williams have been put on an outside court ? I dont know but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 41 minutes ago, Nobby said: They get the bigger stage because people (two week a year merchants like me) generally prefer it. That's the whole point of what i'm saying. They say they put it on as more people are interested in it. However the reason that more people are interested is because it is always given more attention and focus. Quote I suppose my main reason for posting was that you appeared to be highlighting that the women are being badly treated by wimbledon. In my opinion theyre not. There is simply no way that a male world number one would be put on an outside court at Wimbledon. Not a chance in hell of it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Djokovic safely through in straight sets. Konta down a set to Halep Ostapenko out to Venus williams, Ostapenko is having a great season so far Edited July 11, 2017 by vanderark14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Parklife said: That's the whole point of what i'm saying. They say they put it on as more people are interested in it. However the reason that more people are interested is because it is always given more attention and focus. There is simply no way that a male world number one would be put on an outside court at Wimbledon. Not a chance in hell of it happening. thats not entirely accurate, women do get centre stage at other slams but it doesn't seem to make much difference to the crowds attending. People tend to go out for a break when the women come on unless its latter stages or Serena whos playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Parklife said: That's the whole point of what i'm saying. They say they put it on as more people are interested in it. However the reason that more people are interested is because it is always given more attention and focus. There is simply no way that a male world number one would be put on an outside court at Wimbledon. Not a chance in hell of it happening. Disagree, people are interested in it more because it's better. We probably disagree on that, but that's life And in the men's division you have a plethora of champions who people want to see. The only woman that currently stands with them is Serena Williams. If kerber wins it then she can gripe when it happens until then she needs to get on with it. As previous posters have illustrated even when the women are on centre stage some view it as a good chance to have a beer ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 The men's game should commercially separate from the women's game and they should be two commercially distinct businesses as the men are being forced to subsidize the women's game for bullshit PC reasons. Let them sell their own tickets, sell their own TV rights and stand alone and then they can pay the women whatever they want. But I suspect they will never do that because they know they are sponging the fhuck out of men's tennis getting a cushy ride. Male players should actually sue for discrimination. They are being denied their true earnings to subsidize women's tennis. Inferior? McEnroe says quite rightly the No.1 women's player would struggle to beat the men's No.700. Relatively it is boring and slow and the depth of talent is not there. You still have fat arses playing and doing well last time I looked. Fhuck womens tennis it is pish. Let them earn and then pay their own way. The men's game would be so much better without the PC leaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Full of drug cheats as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 4 hours ago, thplinth said: The men's game should commercially separate from the women's game and they should be two commercially distinct businesses as the men are being forced to subsidize the women's game for bullshit PC reasons. Let them sell their own tickets, sell their own TV rights and stand alone and then they can pay the women whatever they want. But I suspect they will never do that because they know they are sponging the fhuck out of men's tennis getting a cushy ride. Male players should actually sue for discrimination. They are being denied their true earnings to subsidize women's tennis. Inferior? McEnroe says quite rightly the No.1 women's player would struggle to beat the men's No.700. Relatively it is boring and slow and the depth of talent is not there. You still have fat arses playing and doing well last time I looked. Fhuck womens tennis it is pish. Let them earn and then pay their own way. The men's game would be so much better without the PC leaches. Sitting on the fence as usual !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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