Brassrubber Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Statue of Wojek (pronounced Vojek) and his Polish Soldier keeper being unveiled in Princes Street Gardens today - a truly remarkable story from WW2 which is told in short videos here http://www.wojtekmemorialtrust.com/.No wonder they are making a film about it apparently. Terrible that Polish soldiers and airmen were not invited to take part in the Post War parades in London though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 totally agree given that 800.000 polish soldiers where under British command during the Second World War the organiserers should hang there heads in shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Went to see the Polish war memorial in duns a few years ago many poles stationed in the Borders during WW2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) My grandad was one of the Poles who stayed. His story is incredible, and most of them have similar amazing stories. I'll maybe post a bit more tomorrow. The Polish General Maczek was the last of the major commanders, dying in Edinburgh when was 103 years old. The treatment at the remembrance service in 1946, to appease Russia, was a disgrace (until she lost her lucidity my gran absolutely hated Churchill), especially so given the important role they played in the Battle of Britain which is often glossed over. I also have one of the best collections of Polish photographs in the country, and they've been used in several books. Will try and post a few. The book about Wojtek is a decent read. Sure the author was an adviser to Alex Salmond. Unfortunately there aren't any books about journeys west, but there are some really good ones about those who 'escaped' east - The Long Walk, and Shallow Graves in Siberia being two I can remember. Edited November 8, 2015 by Stapes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Poles slavs and Czechs were treated like shit during WW2 much in the same way Commonwealth troops were in WW1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Poles and Czechs are Slavs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Went to see the Polish Map of Scotland a couple of months back when driving down through the Borders. An interesting diversion... http://www.mapascotland.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin63 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I went to the Warsaw Uprising Museum when Scotland played the friendly there in March 2014. Very sobering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I went to the Warsaw Uprising Museum when Scotland played the friendly there in March 2014. Very sobering. aye went there aswell hard to believe that 90% of Warsaw was destroyed by the Germans during the war but the poles where a very resilient lot and completey rebuild there city to what is is today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin63 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 aye went there aswell hard to believe that 90% of Warsaw was destroyed by the Germans during the war but the poles where a very resilient lot and completey rebuild there city to what is is today They're grafters. Warsaw was way nicer a city than I'd ever expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Laud Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I went to the Warsaw Uprising Museum when Scotland played the friendly there in March 2014. Very sobering. Us as well .It was amazing to see the pictures of the buildings flattened only to be rebuilt exactly as they were.Oh and the population went through hell what with the nazis then the russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al2014 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 My office is right where the ghetto was, walk about 50m and there is the remains of the wall with a plaque, puts a shiver up my back every time i walk past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The UK shat all over Poland at the end of WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The UK shat all over Poland at the end of WW2. Don't get that.Care to explain why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Don't get that.Care to explain why? Free Polish soldiers were not even allowed to march in victory parades at the end of the war because Britain didnt want to piss off the Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Free Polish soldiers were not even allowed to march in victory parades at the end of the war because Britain didnt want to piss off the Russians. Ok, my version of shat on is like the UK sending cossacks back to certain death, Stalin pausing outside Warsaw to let the Polish Home Army be destroyed or arguably the UK and France not really doing anything except sit and watch while the Germans and Soviets ripped Poland in two. Not being in the victory parade is pish but doesn't amount to being shat on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The U.K. went to war in 1939 to support Polish sovereignty but then Churchill stabbed them in the back at Yalta with Stalin and Roosevelt and consigning them to decades of Soviet domination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The U.K. went to war in 1939 to support Polish sovereignty but then Churchill stabbed them in the back at Yalta with Stalin and Roosevelt and consigning them to decades of Soviet domination. A bit simplistic no? By Yalta the Soviets were about 50 miles from Berlin, Poland already occupied and the democracy leaders scrambling to save what they could from Stalin. The UK was already in decline and the US had no interest in trading American lives for territory. Not sure what you expected them to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The U.K. went to war in 1939 to support Polish sovereignty but then Churchill stabbed them in the back at Yalta with Stalin and Roosevelt and consigning them to decades of Soviet domination. And between those two events the Poles laid down tens of thousands of lives for the Allies. This included playing a key role in the Battle of Britain, closing the Falaise Gap, and taking part in the hell on earth that was Monte Cassino. As well as being stabbed in the back by Churchill there was also a huge opposition to them even being allowed to stay here by many MPs and the trade unions (who couldn't seem to fathom that they would be filling the jobs of Britain's dead, not taking British jobs). For many years afterwards there was negativity in some quarters for the Poles driven by the media. Much like today's reporting on the Syrian refugees some might say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 And between those two events the Poles laid down tens of thousands of lives for the Allies. This included playing a key role in the Battle of Britain, closing the Falaise Gap, and taking part in the hell on earth that was Monte Cassino. As well as being stabbed in the back by Churchill there was also a huge opposition to them even being allowed to stay here by many MPs and the trade unions (who couldn't seem to fathom that they would be filling the jobs of Britain's dead, not taking British jobs). For many years afterwards there was negativity in some quarters for the Poles driven by the media. Much like today's reporting on the Syrian refugees some might say. Don't think anyone would argue about the bravery and sacrifice of all those involved. So again 'stabbed in the back' what was he supposed to do at Yalta? Threaten to carry on the war, this time with the Soviets the enemy? So lots of people, or at least those people with access to a voice objected to the Poles remaining. But the glaring point is that they were allowed to remain. Bonus point for taking off at a stunning tangent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Don't think anyone would argue about the bravery and sacrifice of all those involved. So again 'stabbed in the back' what was he supposed to do at Yalta? Threaten to carry on the war, this time with the Soviets the enemy? So lots of people, or at least those people with access to a voice objected to the Poles remaining. But the glaring point is that they were allowed to remain. Bonus point for taking off at a stunning tangent. I think the central word there is 'threat'. Russia wanted to avoid another war as much as the rest of the Allies. And they weren't averse to backing down, as JFK would later prove. Churchill and Eisenhower backed down. Why? Perhaps to avoid war. Perhaps because Poles were Eastern Europeans and not considered too important. Perhaps a bit of both. Just making a point about those objecting - it's a fair point to make on the back of Churchill's treatment. I'll give you the stunning tangent lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassrubber Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 And Wojek happily ended his days in Edinburgh Zoo and played darts for The Murrayfield Bar Ah made that bit up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think the central word there is 'threat'. Russia wanted to avoid another war as much as the rest of the Allies. And they weren't averse to backing down, as JFK would later prove. Churchill and Eisenhower backed down. Why? Perhaps to avoid war. Perhaps because Poles were Eastern Europeans and not considered too important. Perhaps a bit of both. Just making a point about those objecting - it's a fair point to make on the back of Churchill's treatment. I'll give you the stunning tangent lol. Glad you have such an insight. Stalin went on to kill how many people? JFK wasn't dealing with Stalin, he was dealing with Khrushchev. Pretty sure you will find with a bit of reading that Churchill didn't want to back down but by 1945 was very much the junior partner in the western part of the allies. The US were still fighting 'their' war in the Pacific and wanted the Soviets to join them by attacking Manchuria. No offence but your take is amazingly one sided. I'm no government apologist but you should look at things in the round rather than individual events. Lots of twats object about all sorts. Mostly those who object the loudest know the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ah made that bit up Bollox. I had a wee tear in my eye till you said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Lots of twats object about all sorts. Mostly those who object the loudest know the least. Not sure why you think I'm objecting to anything, I'm not. It's you who seems to be doing all the objecting, but hey ho. Simply giving my opinion on a subject I know a little, and not a lot, about. It's a football message board - I'm not publishing an academic paper - so therefore I'm not particularly interested in reading ten books before I post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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