Alan Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 You said "West dropping bombs on Syria". The vast majority of deaths are Muslims killing Muslims. The vast majority of destruction is Muslims bombing Muslims especially Assad destroying his own country. Throw in Russia, Jordan, UAE, Turkey bombing, proxy armies aided by Saudi and Iran for religious reasons it's a total mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 You said "West dropping bombs on Syria". The vast majority of deaths are Muslims killing Muslims. The vast majority of destruction is Muslims bombing Muslims especially Assad destroying his own country. Throw in Russia, Jordan, UAE, Turkey bombing, proxy armies aided by Saudi and Iran for religious reasons it's a total mess. Not sure on the accuracy of some of that but I agree that it's not just the west who are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacTaz Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 You can't use bombing a county as a valid reason for people leaving because it's light? ffs They are not escaping the bombing they are escaping ISIS and their caliphate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacTaz Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 In old money we equated refugees with poor people. Modern total war means it's people like you or I who are refugees. Professionals, Doctors, Lawyers, Managers, businessmen, etc. I would expect them to have smart phones and e-mail friends confirmation that they are alive and well. J Well in that case they won't be needing financial help from us, they can buy their own homes and feed and clothe themselves . I can't afford a feckin IpHONE !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 They are not escaping the bombing they are escaping ISIS and their caliphate . In addition to the bombing I would argue. Not forgetting that "we" helped create Isis also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Well in that case they won't be needing financial help from us, they can buy their own homes and feed and clothe themselves . I can't afford a feckin IpHONE !!! They don't have jobs or homes and fled for their lives. Of course they will need financial help. Sure a Doctor can get employment pretty quickly, but they are not all doctors. I'm sure the ones with liquid assets use those assets to get the feck out of Syria. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacTaz Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 In addition to the bombing I would argue. Not forgetting that "we" helped create Isis also We are not carpet bombing the place. People keep repeating that mantra "we created ISIS" I don't see any real evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacTaz Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 They don't have jobs or homes and fled for their lives. Of course they will need financial help. Sure a Doctor can get employment pretty quickly, but they are not all doctors. I'm sure the ones with liquid assets use those assets to get the feck out of Syria. J Interestingly the Danish and Swedish governments have now decided that migrants can have their assets seized when they arrive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 We are not carpet bombing the place. People keep repeating that mantra "we created ISIS" I don't see any real evidence. That's okay then . . . http://youtu.be/1y13SaBJD6w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 In addition to the bombing I would argue. Not forgetting that "we" helped create Isis also. ISIS is from an ideology that has been spreading for centuries. The ideology picked up in strength with Saudi Arabia adopting wahhabism in the 20th Century. Couple that with a huge battle within Islam between the Sunni and Shia sects of which ISIS subscribes to a very militant form of Sunni Islam and within all of Islam a battle between modernists and fundamentalists leading to the path of potential reformation episode in Islam's history. ISIS sees anyone who is a non believer of their ideology including many Sunnis as sub human and should be killed. Saddam Hussein even adopted militant Sunnism to strengthen his hold in Iraq and use it against Shia internally and in Iran. Secular Bathism evolved into militancy. I doubt this path could have been avoided no matter what "the West" did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 ISIS is from an ideology that has been spreading for centuries. The ideology picked up in strength with Saudi Arabia adopting wahhabism in the 20th Century. Couple that with a huge battle within Islam between the Sunni and Shia sects of which ISIS subscribes to a very militant form of Sunni Islam and within all of Islam a battle between modernists and fundamentalists leading to the path of potential reformation episode in Islam's history. ISIS sees anyone who is a non believer of their ideology including many Sunnis as sub human and should be killed. Saddam Hussein even adopted militant Sunnism to strengthen his hold in Iraq and use it against Shia internally and in Iran. Secular Bathism evolved into militancy. I doubt this path could have been avoided no matter what "the West" did. Most reports put wahhabism as the central ideology which is fairly new. the EU parliament recognised it as such. It was a minor itch in the 18th century, then didn't pop it's head up again till After the destruction of the Ottaman empire with World War I, which was about the time that Western navies converted to oil and the region got drawn into global politics. http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism Saddam Hussein was put into power by the CIA, see Bremner Bird and Fortune book "you are here" So blaming it on Saddam and not the West is giving them a degree of separation that doesn't exist. Saudi Arabia became important as all the Israeli spying on America in the 60's and 70's soured relations and with GHW Bush taking control he used the Saudi's the way Israel used to be used. Which increased it;s power world wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Another few dozen drowned in the Med over this weekend. That's a few less the EU will have to worry about. Mind you, I suppose somebody in the EU will have to pick up the bill for disposing of the bodies. If only we had managed to make stay at home and die in their own country it could have saved us that expense as well. Our political leaders just don't seem to have a clue how to start solving this problem or maybe they just don't care enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3000 children die a day in Africa and have done for decades. I went to fact check and it's much more NAIROBI, 15 July 2005 - A disproportionately heavy burden of child deaths weighs on families in eastern and southern Africa. Every day 5,500 children under the age of five die across the 21 countries of the region and the majority of the deaths are largely preventable. http://www.unicef.org/media/media_27680.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 There was a vote in last Westminster Parliament to bomb Assad in Syria which was defeated. The last vote the other month was to bomb ISIS/Daesh in Syria to match Iraq policy. You can not use the bombing as a valid reason which has been very light. It's far more complicated than that and your comment looks like you are blinded by your political viewpoint on that point. You can however use the illegal war in Iraq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 You can however use the illegal war in Iraq Iraq War - Bingo! Alas for you the current problems do not centre solely around Iraq war. It is part of the jigsaw, along with earlier comments from phart and a whole load of other issues. One big complicated mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Iraq War - Bingo! Alas for you the current problems do not centre solely around Iraq war. It is part of the jigsaw, along with earlier comments from phart and a whole load of other issues. One big complicated mess. Largely caused by western intervention in the Middle East Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Iraq War - Bingo! Alas for you the current problems do not centre solely around Iraq war.. I don't say they did but the instability created is one of many factors. There are plenty of other things we in the west have also done that have also played a part so we cannot wash our hands of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I don't say they did but the instability created is one of many factors. There are plenty of other things we in the west have also done that have also played a part so we cannot wash our hands of it. Don't see many people advocating washing of hands. UK taking in families from refugee camps. Seems fair to me. Don't see groundswell of opinion for any other action. What else do you suggest with some details and costing? Other countries need to take the strain away from Western Europe. Saudi, Iran and Gulf States have done plenty of meddling. Don't see much from them and this is their local region and same religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I don't say they did but the instability created is one of many factors. There are plenty of other things we in the west have also done that have also played a part so we cannot wash our hands of it. Devils Advocate Edited February 1, 2016 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Don't see many people advocating washing of hands. You don't hmm then you are not paying m,much attention then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Other countries need to take the strain away from Western Europe. Saudi, Iran and Gulf States have done plenty of meddling. Don't see much from them and this is their local region and same religion. For years many prominent muslims in Europe and the UK warned successive Governments of the type of muslims they were letting in because they knew where they came from and the ideology of those areas. Its clear this is why the the Gulf states are refusing entry because they are shit scared of the possible consequences so much so that they ignore the humanitarian cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 You don't hmm then you are not paying m,much attention then. I'm totally missing the point you are trying to make or suggestions you have to improve the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm totally missing the point you are trying to make or suggestions you have to improve the situation. I will make it simple for you then. I as explaining where we are, why we got here and why we should help because many many people think we shouldn't despite your blindness to this. You then changed the subject, I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Saudi Arabia and Turkey now pondering over sending troops into Syria as the rebels are being routed - which would be illegal. Syria's foreign minister has warned them that any foreign troops entering his country would return in coffins. This is the start of World War 3 Edited February 6, 2016 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Russian involvement in syria and unkraine stinks. In saying that the UK and Americans involvement in Libya,  Iraq and Afghanistan could also be open to criticism. Feel so lucky that I can bring my kids up in a country with no war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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