Rossy Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm slightly worried that people won't see the need for independence if we get FFA - this is my only concern with it. I look at it the other way....succesful FFA will remove any real argument against independence. I think home rule is essential before full independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm slightly worried that people won't see the need for independence if we get FFA - this is my only concern with it.That was labours hope re: having a Scottish parliament... Didn't stop independence ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm slightly worried that people won't see the need for independence if we get FFA - this is my only concern with it. A fair concern but one that will just have to tolerated. There is no conceivable way we could say to FFA. Passing up the chance runs the risk of never seeing the opportunity again. Even if the SNP wanted to snub an offer of FFA, they couldn't in all seriousness say No. It would be political suicide IMO - they'd be cornered by a UK establishment that knew it was all or nothing for Scotland. If FFA comes up now, the SNP will have to accept it. That said, it absolutely will not be offered which makes a mockery of all the current political posturing by Labour. The UK establishment will have no problem with Scotland hanging on by a thread. While it causes a constitutional nightmare, it's a price worth paying if it means they get to defer dealing with the Scotland problem. In the meantime, they hope for a gamechanger that will sink the SNP sink and they can go back to normal. It's effectively a big game of patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I look at it the other way....succesful FFA will remove any real argument against independence. I think home rule is essential before full independence. Which is exactly why it will not be offered. It almost validates independence. It's a stepping stone to independence with a lot of the risks underwritten by the UK taxpayer. Borrowing, Scottish treasury, new Scottish Governmental departments, etc all funded by UK Treasury. Once those are all resolved, what really is the UK argument against independence - a nuclear deterrent? No chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Watch the tories offer FFS for SNP support in the next Parliament... what will Nicola do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I look at it the other way....succesful FFA will remove any real argument against independence. I think home rule is essential before full independence. True. We'd not have defence and foreign affairs with FFA - one of the things that I, personally, want the most for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Watch the tories offer FFS for SNP support in the next Parliament... what will Nicola do.... Accept it - she wouldn't pass it up, surely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ild imagine it'll be offered for reduced status of scottish mps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 "I'm slightly worried that people won't see the need for independence if we get FFA - this is my only concern with it." Don't be, once, or when we get FFA the English will kick us out as we will be of no longer use to them. There's more than one way to skin an Independence cat you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Accept it - she wouldn't pass it up, surely... Trust the Tories, mmmmm Labour would have a reserection with this I think she would have to accept it tho Tell the Tories , give us it within 6 months and we wont vote on any English laws... FFA within a year of a naw vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Once we have FFA and its shown to work, it will seem crazy that we still need rest of UK to look after our defence and foreign affairs. It will feel more of an independent country than it does now (both culturally and politically) because all major decisions will be made in Edinburgh. There is big parallels with the Quebec referendums. They lost the first vote with a bigger margin than we did, we are starting with a better base and they missed the second vote by under 1%. My gut is we wont see another referendum until around 2018 onwards, we will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Accept it - she wouldn't pass it up, surely... No chance. Not a cat in hells chance of Sturgeon voting in a Tory government. All the hard work done till now would disappear like snow of a dyke the moment after it was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 No chance. Not a cat in hells chance of Sturgeon voting in a Tory government. All the hard work done till now would disappear like snow of a dyke the moment after it was done. I miss read the quote - I read it as "Watch the tories offer FFA to SNP in the next Parliament... what will Nicola do...." I wouldn't do it to support a Conservative government - no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) But Tories wouldn't need snp support if they didn't sit in return for FFA. A parliament of 591 (-SF) would mean 290 odd seats would do it forever. Tories would have rUK sown up. Can't see it happening though. Edited April 13, 2015 by flumax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm slightly worried that people won't see the need for independence if we get FFA - this is my only concern with it. It will kill nationalism stone dead... Think I've heard that line before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 to be clear The Tories are masters at keeping power, they will do anything to hold onto power.. If the Tories need the SNP seats, or, more likely, if they neutralise them so Labour cant use them, and therefore give the Tories a bigger working group.... What If the Tories put FFA in a Queens speach, and dare the SNP to vote against it... What would Nicola do.. FFA is great for Scotland, but a deal with the Tories could kill the SNP.. What is more imprtant to Nicola, Scotland or the SNP..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Scotland. No question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Good question, and Cameron and Osborne are devious barstewards. FFA offered by Tories would be a poisoned chalice as it would be given on their terms. Sturgeon couldnt do a deal as rightly or wrongly it would be seen as a betrayal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 So are we saying .... Tories say don't deal with labour and we will offer FFA ? Is that the idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Tories could theoretically offer FFA and hope the SNP at least abstains. It would have to be a last play of the dice though from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 So are we saying .... Tories say don't deal with labour and we will offer FFA ? Is that the idea? AYE... I can see the offer coming stay out of English affairs, EVEL and we will give u FFA....... Labour Played and Phukked over agian by the Tories and Cameron/(osborne really) gets another shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 There is big parallels with the Quebec referendums. They lost the first vote with a bigger margin than we did, we are starting with a better base and they missed the second vote by under 1%. My gut is we wont see another referendum until around 2018 onwards, we will get there. If it's like Quebec we won't see another referendum until about 2030... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The other thing to consider is the turnout. I think the passion shown by the Yes campaign has enthused people and is more likely to take a stronger hold. In this respect the vast numbers who weren't normally voters will return to their lack of concern in greater numbers on all sides EXCEPT the SNP. I think this is why they holding such a lead in the polls. Let's hope nothing happens to regalvanise the Unionist parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 There is still a *large* number of undecideds. They might be undecided because they still can't work out which way to tactically vote against the SNP. Or they might be open to more powers and willing to give the SNP a go like in 2011, safe in the knowledge that they can knock independence back in any further referendum. Time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 to be clear The Tories are masters at keeping power, they will do anything to hold onto power.. If the Tories need the SNP seats, or, more likely, if they neutralise them so Labour cant use them, and therefore give the Tories a bigger working group.... What If the Tories put FFA in a Queens speach, and dare the SNP to vote against it... What would Nicola do.. FFA is great for Scotland, but a deal with the Tories could kill the SNP.. What is more imprtant to Nicola, Scotland or the SNP..... It will happen and the SNP will take it...... the logic being that full control will keep the Tories out of Scotland forever. the SNP will withdraw from Westminster in return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.