92,000 Snp Members

[Dave78]

They've got a short-term bump, sure, but there's no sustainable advantage in being low-cost if you don't have a genuine basis for being cheaper than your competitors (lower wage costs, better distribution etc). Because everyone else can (and will) ape it with the stroke of a pen.

This "short-term bump" has been going on since the 90's, and doesn't seem to be showing any signs of disappearing.

[AlfieMoon]

I assume the tax relief will be for small/medium companies, but you can't say you'll tackle inequality and then cut social spending to fund relief for companies of any size. In my humble opinion.

It never does. Corp tax cuts are nothing more than gifts to shareholders.

In it's self there's not much wrong. But on the whole it's looking like the interest of Scottish business will come before the interest of the people.

Ok, gifts to shareholders and business owners.

You seem to have quite a narrowed view of SMB's.

Do you not think that relief can be a positive in terms of job protection and creation through expansion? I don't think it's fair to say that money is simply to be trousered by business owners and shareholders.

Considering those SMB's create jobs, income tax, VAT, business rates, corporation tax and then have knock-on tax benefits of what they would spend on any number of things from rent, accountants, banking, printers/advertising, vehicles, fuel, bin services, manufacturing, shop/office/bar/cafe fits. You even need to pay a tax to play a CD in a cafe/bar/shop for god's sake!!

I don't think it's unreasonable to have some money aside to support entrepreneurs who should be encouraged to grow their businesses and in turn grow our economy.

[thorbotnic]

This "short-term bump" has been going on since the 90's, and doesn't seem to be showing any signs of disappearing.

You're attributing all of the Celtic Tiger's success to corp tax rates?

[thorbotnic]

.

Edited November 26, 2014 by thorbotnic

[thorbotnic]

It's just too simplistic to say giving a tax cut to businesses means all of the money will be pocketed by the owners/shareholders.

If the government game my company a £10k gift tomorrow, i know for a fact it would be reinvested in the company (i.e. spent on making our product better - partially through employing people/buying services to improve it (creating jobs!)), as that's what it needs to stay competitive.

I imagine the same would be true for most SME's.

The lower the corporation tax rate, the higher the incentive for directors to pocket their profits rather than reinvest. You, personally, may not do that, but incentives create and mould broad trends. It's no coincidence that capital investment has declined since the 1980s.

[Scunnered]

I do have a narrow view of smb owners, absolutely. A company of any size which puts people before profits is an exception to the rule.

This isn't money that is aside, this is money that the Scottish government are moving out of the public spending into the private sector. If you believe that is acceptable in the search of economic growth then that's fine, I don't.

The SNP members on here are much more approachable than the average ones. I told one on Facebook last night for telling her that every time she called Labour'Red Tories' I'd post a link to the draft budget for parity. She blocked me

Edit: Nowt wrong with Communists, some of my closest friends and lovers are communists.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Scunnered

[FuNsTeR]

I do have a narrow view of smb owners, absolutely. A company of any size which puts people before profits is an exception to the rule.

This isn't money that is aside, this is money that the Scottish government are moving out of the public spending into the private sector. If you believe that is acceptable in the search of economic growth then that's fine, I don't.

The SNP members on here are much more approachable than the average ones. I told one on Facebook last night for telling her that every time she called Labour'Red Tories' I'd post a link to the draft budget for parity. She blocked me

Edit: Nowt wrong with Communists, some of my closest friends and lovers are communists.

you do realise the Scottish budget for next year has been slashed by £5 or £ 6 billion .... do you honestly think the Scottish government didn't have hard choices to make .... out of curiosity scunnered what would the labour draft budget have been ?? remove half the A&Es, remove council tax freeze, remove free bus travel for pensioners, remove free tuition fees, remove free prescriptions, introduce the private sector into the NHS and deregulate the banks oh they already done that one

[EvilScotsman]

you do realise the Scottish budget for next year has been slashed by £5 or £ 6 billion .... do you honestly think the Scottish government didn't have hard choices to make .... out of curiosity scunnered what would the labour draft budget have been ?? remove half the A&Es, remove council tax freeze, remove free bus travel for pensioners, remove free tuition fees, remove free prescriptions, introduce the private sector into the NHS and deregulate the banks oh they already done that one

This would make sense if he'd have given any indication of being a Labour voter/supporter.

[Scunnered]

you do realise the Scottish budget for next year has been slashed by £5 or £ 6 billion .... do you honestly think the Scottish government didn't have hard choices to make .... out of curiosity scunnered what would the labour draft budget have been ?? remove half the A&Es, remove council tax freeze, remove free bus travel for pensioners, remove free tuition fees, remove free prescriptions, introduce the private sector into the NHS and deregulate the banks oh they already done that one

I acknowledged the cut to the block grant in my first post on the matter.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Scunnered

[Lamia]

you do realise the Scottish budget for next year has been slashed by £5 or £ 6 billion .... do you honestly think the Scottish government didn't have hard choices to make .... out of curiosity scunnered what would the labour draft budget have been ?? remove half the A&Es, remove council tax freeze, remove free bus travel for pensioners, remove free tuition fees, remove free prescriptions, introduce the private sector into the NHS and deregulate the banks oh they already done that one

Scunnered made the point that he acknowledged that there were cuts but was unhappy that SNP are proposing cuts to Corporation Tax when at the same time other budgets at being cut so thinks the balance is wrong. I also don't think he is in the business of defending Labour.

I think I probably support the point he is making because I am not convinced cuts to Corporation Tax should be happening in current climate of budget cuts. I too have doubts about the effect of such an approach

[Scunnered]

I will give one word of hope for Labour. In the unlikely event that Findlay and Clark can overcome their own case of media bias against them (irony), I believe their leadership of Scottish Labour would be a great thing to happen to both the SNP and Scottish Labour. They would brief an opposition to Holyrood that I believe would bring some form of credibility back to Scottish Labour and force the SNP to address the concerns of the reluctant left.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Scunnered

[AlfieMoon]

I think I probably support the point he is making because I am not convinced cuts to Corporation Tax should be happening in current climate of budget cuts. I too have doubts about the effect of such an approach

It would be interesting to hear or see what studies/research had went into the 3% reduction figure that was intended and what impact on job creation and attraction of foreign investment would be anticipated.

From memory - the current standing is that Income Tax generates approximately 5x what Corporation Tax does so on the face of it, this is not a bad move as long as the jobs (preferably higher skilled) can be created.

[jailender]

The jobs will be with Amazon and similar, and they will pay minimal taxes as per.

[the_burger]

92,001

Don't agree with all of their policies, but far more agreeable than the Con/Lib/Lab/UKIP boakfest, and IMO best way to keep Westminster's feet to the fire is having a strong SNP.

Sadly though, I reckon we are going to start witnessing public service cuts on the same scale as south of the border as our budget tightens.

[Orraloon]

Does the SG have control of Corporation Tax? When did that happen?

[Scunnered]

Does the SG have control of Corporation Tax? When did that happen?

They don't, but they want it.

[Orraloon]

They don't, but they want it.

They wont get it.

And, it only accounts for about 6% of the total revenues raised in Scotland anyway, so it's hardly worth bothering about. Increasing or reducing Corporation tax by 20% only affects the overall revenue take by about 1%.

[Scunnered]

They wont get it.

And, it only accounts for about 6% of the total revenues raised in Scotland anyway, so it's hardly worth bothering about. Increasing or reducing Corporation tax by 20% only affects the overall revenue take by about 1%.

A corporation tax cut is definitely worth bothering about. If they are considering slashing public spending by £500m to fund £600m of tax relief for business what would be the effect on public spending on a far wider reaching tax cut?

[Dave78]

You're attributing all of the Celtic Tiger's success to corp tax rates?

Not all of that 'success' no, but the majority of it.

Every time there's a job announcement on the news over here (and multinationals the only ones who create enough jobs to make the news these days) they talk about the youthful population, the high levels of education, access to the eurozone etc. They never mention the corp tax rate, but everyone knows that's the main reason for their decision.

When the Irish government were negotiating the bailout, they had one 'red line' - that they kept the 12.5% corporation tax rate. It's vital to the Irish economy.

The lower the corporation tax rate, the higher the incentive for directors to pocket their profits rather than reinvest. You, personally, may not do that, but incentives create and mould broad trends. It's no coincidence that capital investment has declined since the 1980s.

I'm not sure i understand where the incentive is. Profit is profit. When deciding how much i can pay myself, i look at how much profit i've made (after paying tax of course) and how much i expect to make in the future. How much of it was taken by the government is neither here nor there.

[antidote]

They don't, but they want it.

A wee heads up. They want all powers.

[antidote]

A corporation tax cut is definitely worth bothering about. If they are considering slashing public spending by £500m to fund £600m of tax relief for business what would be the effect on public spending on a far wider reaching tax cut?

Would they need to cut public spending if they had all the powers?

I thought they had to cut PS because of westminster's cut in our pocket money.

You do realise that cutting corporation tax attracts companies to set up in Scotland thus creating thousands of jobs, meaning less spending on benefits?

Where did you get these figures from?

Don't tell me the Labour Party who have great problems with anything financial.

Lament: raising the higher rate of tax to 50p would generate £100 mil.

Interviewer: but that's for the whole of the uk.

Murphy, recently: raising the higher rate of tax to 50p would generate £250 mil.

See what I mean?

This is the way to do it:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/swinney-councils-and-health-board-must-stop-playing-costly-game-of-ping-p.1417007870

Not this:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/council-chiefs-enjoy-15000-rises-as-hundreds-see-pay-cut.25965740#comment-1713184773

[gonzoal]

It would be interesting to hear or see what studies/research had went into the 3% reduction figure that was intended and what impact on job creation and attraction of foreign investment would be anticipated.

From memory - the current standing is that Income Tax generates approximately 5x what Corporation Tax does so on the face of it, this is not a bad move as long as the jobs (preferably higher skilled) can be created.

Can't forget hearing John Beatty (an accountant before going into rugby and broadcasting) saying the day after the referendum that it was self-evident (or words to that effect) amongst economists/accountants etc that cutting corporation tax was an accepted way of generating money. I remember it because he had said not a dicky bird about this before the vote when the unionists were all using it as a way of saying it was a payment to big business.

[Scunnered]

1. Would they need to cut public spending if they had all the powers?

2. You do realise that cutting corporation tax attracts companies to set up in Scotland thus creating thousands of jobs, meaning less spending on benefits?

3. Where did you get these figures from?

4. Don't tell me the Labour Party who have great problems with anything financial.

1. Yes, they would.

2. The first part of this is true in some cases, the second part isn't in most. A common occurrence with Laffers theory is that employment rises slightly, while welfare spending changes little. See Canada and Ireland. In all cases inequality rises significantly, again see Canada and Ireland.

3. Swinney's draft budget.

4. No, the SNP.

[Scunnered]

Can't forget hearing John Beatty (an accountant before going into rugby and broadcasting) saying the day after the referendum that it was self-evident (or words to that effect) amongst economists/accountants etc that cutting corporation tax was an accepted way of generating money. I remember it because he had said not a dicky bird about this before the vote when the unionists were all using it as a way of saying it was a payment to big business.

Salmonds own advisor said it was a payment to big business.

[antidote]

1. Yes, they would.

2. The first part of this is true in some cases, the second part isn't in most. A common occurrence with Laffers theory is that employment rises slightly, while welfare spending changes little. See Canada and Ireland. In all cases inequality rises significantly, again see Canada and Ireland.

3. Swinney's draft budget.

4. No, the SNP.

Number 1 is just your opinion.