Maq Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Certainly seems unlikely that this has been achieved by trading, so a bit silly to say it's some kind of anti-Armageddon result. Of course it's anti-Armageddon When Rangers died, the Daily Record, Jim Traynor and seemingly the whole of rangersmedia got themselves into a wankfest that 5 clubs were going to die directly as a result of the new rangers not being parachuted into the top league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 HBOS have probably learned the lesson from the sale of Rangers. They called in the £20m and forced the sale. Doubt any Scottish club will be exposed to this in the near future. Different times. The spectre of the big tax case spooked many, including buyers and creditors. This left a gaping whole for opportunists. Its clear Aberdeen ,Hearts and many others lived beyond their means but as a result of debt restatement/reclassification they have pulled through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 As a neutral this looks like a very good deal. Fresh capital is being invested diversifying club ownership further one would think and the money is being used to clear the debt, not spunked on a title winning squad that is unsustainable or on a stadium no one wants in a place no one wants to go. Milne is capitalizing his debt to match the new capital coming in so probably he does not get too diluted. This puts AFC onto a rock solid financial footing and assuming they do not borrow again (for a new stadium) there is no reason why they should not stay debt free (give or take an operational overdraft on occasion). It is hard to imagine any serious financial threats to AFC now in the short & medium term. I think the new stadium is still very likely (and probably out of the city centre, which i'm not too happy with) - just depends how much it costs, and how much we get for the land around Pittodrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Okay. Aberdeen obviously in an envious position (from a Rangers fan point of view), but all seems a bit murky, at this stage. The bizarre thing is after RFC won the tax case and had Murray held on he could have done exactly the same thing as AFC are now doing for about the same money. But once he sold it to Whyte you were doomed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Of course it's anti-Armageddon When Rangers died, the Daily Record, Jim Traynor and seemingly the whole of rangersmedia got themselves into a wankfest that 5 clubs were going to die directly as a result of the new rangers not being parachuted into the top league But they've only managed it because they've been bailed out. It's a great situation to be in, and I for one am very envious, but it's a bail out nonetheless. Kind of like what Craig Whyte was supposed to do for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Its clear Aberdeen ,Hearts and many others lived beyond their means but as a result of debt restatement/reclassification they have pulled through. What are you talking about? Rangers pulled through didn't they? Nothing happened to the club. I think you're confusing the prosperous, thriving club, with the dead decaying company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I think the new stadium is still very likely (and probably out of the city centre, which i'm not too happy with) - just depends how much it costs, and how much we get for the land around Pittodrie Really?! Thank god I do not support Aberdeen anymore as that would enrage me. That also makes me think this is why they are doing this now, to borrow heavy later on...with Milne awarding himself the contracts...ka-ching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 But they've only managed it because they've been bailed out. It's a great situation to be in, and I for one am very envious, but it's a bail out nonetheless. Kind of like what Craig Whyte was supposed to do for us. Yeah, true. But my point was - regardless of how we've been bailed out, it happened regardless of rangers. The DR and the halfwits were saying that clubs would DEFINITELY die as a direct result of rangers not being in the top league - hence all the 'Armageddon' stories in the first place. I think Stewart Milne's response at the time was "we'll be fine" - hopefully that'll be the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Basically some David Murray type character has come in and gave the Dons dosh to clear their bank debt for a stake in the club and Wiggy has turned his debt into more shares for himself. We'll be upto our knees in toasters in no time soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 It is not a 'bailout' it is a 'recapitalization'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 What are you talking about? Rangers pulled through didn't they? Nothing happened to the club. I think you're confusing the prosperous, thriving club, with the dead decaying companyam I imagining what has happened to rangers in the last three years? You are being deliberately provocative, I get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Really?! Thank god I do not support Aberdeen anymore as that would enrage me. That also makes me think this is why they are doing this now, to borrow heavy later on...with Milne awarding himself the contracts...ka-ching! Aye. I'd love to stay at todders - not particularly for any sentimental reasons, i'm all for a new stadium - but it's just so handy for town, and I love stadiums in the city centre, makes the whole matchday so much better for me, and my mates. Problem is I think if we stay there, it'll cost a fortune to maintain/update the stadium, and what will be essentially papering over cracks. If we get a large spunk of dosh for the land (for some Stewart Milne flats no doubt!), it might not be too bad financially for the club to move to a new stadium outside the city, with proper training facilities etc. It would be a shame though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 am I imagining what has happened to rangers in the last three years? You are being deliberately provocative, I get that. Yes, I am. But you'll understand my confusion - that you're telling me that the club has struggled, in a financial sense, when all we've heard previously is that the finances are to do with the company rather than the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 HBOS have probably learned the lesson from the sale of Rangers. They called in the £20m and forced the sale. Doubt any Scottish club will be exposed to this in the near future. Different times. The spectre of the big tax case spooked many, including buyers and creditors. This left a gaping whole for opportunists. Its clear Aberdeen ,Hearts and many others lived beyond their means but as a result of debt restatement/reclassification they have pulled through. HBOS didn't call in a £20m debt at Rangers and force a sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The bizarre thing is after RFC won the tax case and had Murray held on he could have done exactly the same thing as AFC are now doing for about the same money. But once he sold it to Whyte you were doomed... Correct (although I am not sure his finances would have allowed it in any event). But, either way, Murray (or probably more accurately, Lloyds) did not want to take the risk of the BTC. Fair enough. Debt is a word that is bandied around by football fans - of course, practically speaking, a very important part of debt is who it is owed to and whether or not they are a friendly creditor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 HBOS didn't call in a £20m debt at Rangers and force a sale. Sure they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) HBOS didn't call in a £20m debt at Rangers and force a sale. Correct 20 million was irrelevant in the grand scale of it - they (specifically Allan Johnstone) used that as an excuse (IMHO) for the sale but it never added up as true. I posted on this previously... http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=35&p=8843 edit: and was it not less than 20m - 17m maybe? Edited November 12, 2014 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Correct 20 million was irrelevant in the grand scale of it - they (specifically Allan Johnstone) used that as an excuse (IMHO) for the sale but it never added up as true. I posted on this previously... http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=35&p=8843 edit: and was it not less than 20m - 17m maybe? It was 18m and it was only irrelevant if the BTC was lost (which it wasn't (or hasn't been yet)). Anyway, probably best not to sidetrack the Aberdeen fans with this good news re their club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Correct 20 million was irrelevant in the grand scale of it - they (specifically Allan Johnstone) used that as an excuse (IMHO) for the sale but it never added up as true. I posted on this previously... http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=35&p=8843 edit: and was it not less than 20m - 17m maybe? Rangers fans think their team is that precious that HBOS specifically came after that side of Murrays business rather than the other bits who were into the bank for hundreds of millions. Murray didn't go from being worth £900 million to being worth £57million (Sunday Times Rich List) in the space of two years because he bought Paulo Vanoli . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) A large chunk of RFC's debt had been moved from RFC to Murray group some time before, this is why the RFC debt was not that big. When Murray sold RFC, Murray Group immediately wrote off that old transferred RFC debt, it was something like 50-60 millions worth, dwarfing the measly 17m or whatever it was. But even more telling just before that AND just after that LLoyds were capitalizing hundreds of millions of pounds of bad Murray debt into equity, just like Milne is doing now in AFC but on a huge scale... This is why it is ridiculous to believe that Lloyds would have dug their heels in over RFC's piddling amount. They used Lloyds as the excuse for the fire sale to Whyte. Lloyds went along with it because they were worried about a much bigger picture. edit: sorry off topic last post. Edited November 12, 2014 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 A large chunk of RFC's debt had been moved from RFC to Murray group some time before, this is why the RFC debt was not that big. When Murray sold RFC, Murray Group immediately wrote off that old transferred RFC debt, it was something like 50-60 millions worth, dwarfing the measly 17m or whatever it was. But even more telling just before that AND just after that LLoyds were capitalizing hundreds of millions of pounds of bad Murray debt into equity, just like Milne is doing now in AFC but on a huge scale... This is why it is ridiculous to believe that Lloyds would have dug their heels in over RFC's piddling amount. edit: sorry off topic last post. Rangers were just collateral damage and a sideshow Murray had to get rid of to concentrate on the rest of his business empire.Lloyds were made the scapegoats by an obliging media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Good news for the no voting shitebags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exglasgowasc Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Excellent news for Aberdeen this morning. Everything is rosy. Onwards and upwards. I would like to see more chilled beers in the players lounge as there wasn't enough before or after the game on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 They used Lloyds as the excuse for the fire sale to Whyte. Lloyds went along with it because they were worried about a much bigger picture. edit: sorry off topic last post. Lloyds were obviously pushing for it because they saw a way to recoup 18 million quid and avoid a potential liability for (overall) 70 million quid, in which case they would have been left with assets worth hee haw and massively bad PR. You say it was nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it was better than nothing! Lloyds had men on the Rangers board pushing for this outcome. It's no secret. Lloyds wasn't the excuse - they were the ones calling the shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Aberdeen are debt free, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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