Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

42 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

lets break everything down under the sturgeon regime and lets see if anyone can tell me with conviction that she wanted independence 

1. nullifies one main argument for independence when coming out against the oil and gas industry.

2. rumored stitch up of the the most effective independence advocate ever.

3. Chases a vote losing GRR reform bill and hides membership loses 

4.fills the party with GRR advocates and isolates anyone who speaks out against it.

5. isolates all the costal communities in Scotland with HMPA'S proposals

6. increases taxes in middle to higher earners 

7. Pushes juryless court cases 

8. Bottle return scheme debacle

9. ferries debacle on the clyde (again turning island communities against the snp)

10. A9 cancelation(or massive delay

11. doing everything possible to have humza elected as party leader.

12. Taking the uk goverment to court regarding independence.

 

the destroyer of independence 

The above attacks various aspects of historical SNP policies,,, the snp were always about exploiting our energy surplus and how that has been wasted by wrstminster, that argument can no longer be used, they always stood alongside the fishermen and how ted heath sold the industry out, now void,,, make no mistake this has been intentional in driving out the core snp supporters and replacing them with student political nutters 

[hampden_loon2878]

53 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

There's maybe a case for adding:
13. Highly Protected Marine Areas  Okay, the plan was cancelled. But not before angering voters in areas with what's left of a post-Brexit fishing industry?

I'm no political strategist, but I think there might be work needing to be done to re-motivate the Scottish electorate?
 

the industry is resilient and all the inshore lads were against brexit so it really was easy pickings for the snp until this lunatic driven policy was brought forward,, yes the scottish electorate need re-motivated,, its just that the SNP are getting them motivated against their policies

[mcguffin]

5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

the industry is resilient and all the inshore lads were against brexit so it really was easy pickings for the snp until this lunatic driven policy was brought forward,, yes the scottish electorate need re-motivated,, its just that the SNP are getting them motivated against their policies

👍

[Malcolm]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

Let’s not forget that bands E to H are also subject to exemptions that means an old grannie living alone in the old family home will already have a discount.  

 

single occupancy discount which is 25%.  This should be 50% - if you imagine a professional couple both earning living in a house and one dies after they become pensioners, that would be fairer.

From personal experience with my parents, when someone dies the financial impact on the other is really unfair - the loss of personal allowance and pension makes things incredibly tight.  You are talking about old people who have been working hard all their days with a modest lifestyle in a bungalow family home.  Incomes sub 20k a year having to cover increases in council tax like this when they are already being hammered for energy.  This country is shit.

[Ally Bongo]

36 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

single occupancy discount which is 25%.  This should be 50% - if you imagine a professional couple both earning living in a house and one dies after they become pensioners, that would be fairer.

From personal experience with my parents, when someone dies the financial impact on the other is really unfair - the loss of personal allowance and pension makes things incredibly tight.  You are talking about old people who have been working hard all their days with a modest lifestyle in a bungalow family home.  Incomes sub 20k a year having to cover increases in council tax like this when they are already being hammered for energy.  This country is shit.

Nobody loses their personal allowance when someone dies

What can happen is their state pension increases due to the death of their husband which reduces the amount of personal allowance to be set against other pensions

There is no extra allowance for being married except for the married couples allowance and you need to have been born before 1935

[aaid]

38 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

single occupancy discount which is 25%.  This should be 50% - if you imagine a professional couple both earning living in a house and one dies after they become pensioners, that would be fairer.

From personal experience with my parents, when someone dies the financial impact on the other is really unfair - the loss of personal allowance and pension makes things incredibly tight.  You are talking about old people who have been working hard all their days with a modest lifestyle in a bungalow family home.  Incomes sub 20k a year having to cover increases in council tax like this when they are already being hammered for energy.  This country is shit.

In addition to the single person occupancy.

Bands E to H are means tested. 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction-s/council-tax-reduction/check-if-you-can-get-council-tax-reduction-s/

[Malcolm]

5 hours ago, aaid said:

In addition to the single person occupancy.

Bands E to H are means tested. 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction-s/council-tax-reduction/check-if-you-can-get-council-tax-reduction-s/

thanks, i was unaware of that and that probably helps many.

 You do have have less than £16k in savings though, which nowadays is about two weeks shopping.  It’s like everything… save all your days only to have it taken off you in the end, if it’s not council tax it’s care home fees.

better pissing it all up the wall having a great time and let the state take care of you at the end.

 

[Malcolm]

5 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Nobody loses their personal allowance when someone dies

What can happen is their state pension increases due to the death of their husband which reduces the amount of personal allowance to be set against other pensions

There is no extra allowance for being married except for the married couples allowance and you need to have been born before 1935

that’s exactly what happened. What I’m saying is that the “household” loses the benefit of income distributed across two allowances. 

[mcguffin]

Interesting take on the 'campervan saga', about 01:30 in:
https://shatball.podbean.com/e/would-you-buy-a-used-campervan-from-this-fella/

[PapofGlencoe]

I think overall tax should reflect overall wealth and not just consider income so although the dates used are old, I don't mind CT as one branch of taxation.  It's wondering what they're spending the money on which grates.  

If you look across to other countries, I don't understand how things seem a lot better.  I have links to Hungary and Spain and both countries seem to have better public facilities like libraries, pools, general town centre architecture and cleanliness (albeit there are issues in both countries too...in fact i don't know how they do it with some much corruption going on haha).  maybe EU funds some of it?  don't know.

It's the social care tax I can't believe for those who unfortunately have to go to care homes.  sook up every penny you have (until about £20k unless you're savvy enough to "gift" it...).  no idea what the answer is but seems unfair to hard working, working class people who've worked all their days paying into the system.  i wouldn't even mind paying an extra tax over the course of life to fund it for all. Seems like the sort of thing which should come out of general taxation a bit like education and military spending to me, with all sharing the load of the few needing it.  It's the basics of life.  

[mcguffin]

30 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I have links to Hungary and Spain and both countries seem to have better public facilities like libraries, pools, general town centre architecture and cleanliness (albeit there are issues in both countries too...in fact i don't know how they do it with some much corruption going on haha).  maybe EU funds some of it?  don't know.

I don't know about Spain, but corruption does seem to be rife in Eastern European countries. But then we don't have to look far to see corruption in our own countries. I think the difference is that the corruption in Eastern Europe is a more in-your-face sportscar driving gangster type of corruption. While in in the UK, it seems a more well-spoken, subtler, better class of corruption.   Why that might express itself as better public services, I'm not sure. (Maybe because most gangsters grew up using public schools, doctors, dentist and so on, and so maybe value them more? Just a crazy hypothesis though 🙂 )

[aaid]

The problem is that in the UK people want and expect Scandinavian levels of public services but want to US levels of taxation.    Remember taxation covers a number of things; income tax, corporation tax, VAT, council tax, etc., etc

The UK is 23rd of 38 countries in the OECD in terms of tax revenue to GDP.  

It’s pretty simple if you want better public services you need to pay higher taxes.  

Source: https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-kingdom.pdf

[Alibi]

22 hours ago, aaid said:

Let’s not forget that bands E to H are also subject to exemptions that means an old grannie living alone in the old family home will already have a discount.  

That's true but a wee bit selective.  An couple of any age won't get any discount.  The other problem with council tax is that other folk living in a house might not chip in, leaving the registered owner to pay the lot. You could have maybe 8 people crammed into a house but council tax doesn't take that into account.  It really should be raised from a local income tax which is a far better and more equitable solution and spread the burden more fairly.  Even the much-vilified poll tax was more progressive than the current council tax.

Needless to say imposing huge percentage increases isn't going to be welcomed by anyone and opposition parties will weaponise it even though they almost certainly won't have any reasonable alternatives to offer.

[mcguffin]

30 minutes ago, aaid said:

The problem is that in the UK people want and expect Scandinavian levels of public services but want to US levels of taxation.    Remember taxation covers a number of things; income tax, corporation tax, VAT, council tax, etc., etc

The UK is 23rd of 38 countries in the OECD in terms of tax revenue to GDP.  

It’s pretty simple if you want better public services you need to pay higher taxes.  

Source: https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-kingdom.pdf

From your graph:
"...the United Kingdom had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 33.5% compared with the OECD average of 34.1%..."

Those numbers look pretty similar (34%). So the UK has 'average' taxation, but some might say we have 'below average services'.

Maybe not so simple? But nice graph all the same.

[Ally Bongo]

SNP MP Angus MacNeil has party membership suspended

Angus MacNeil has been suspended from the SNP after not taking up an offer to rejoin the party's Westminster group.

The Na h-Eileanan an Iar MP had the whip removed for a week after being involved in a clash with the party's chief whip in Parliament.

He subsequently announced he would sit as an independent MP until at least October.

Mr MacNeill remained an SNP member at that point - but the BBC understands his membership has now been suspended.

An SNP spokesman said: "Angus MacNeil MP was advised by the SNP National Secretary on Wednesday that she considered him to be in breach of the party's code of conduct by his decision to resign from the SNP Westminster parliamentary group.

"Having acknowledged this, Mr MacNeil did not take up the offer to rejoin the SNP parliamentary group and the matter was, therefore, yesterday referred to the SNP Member Conduct Committee for consideration."

Mr MacNeil said: "I did not leave the SNP and I hope the SNP haven't left me, as that was what went wrong with Labour in Scotland".

He is one of the SNP's longest-serving MPs, having first been elected in 2005 but has been a vocal critic of the party leadership in recent years, particularly over its independence strategy.

Mr MacNeil was involved in a row with chief whip Brendan O'Hara earlier this month over Mr MacNeil missing votes in the House of Commons.

It was alleged he threatened Mr O'Hara during the confrontation - which Mr MacNeil denies - and had the whip removed for a week.

That suspension had been due to end earlier this week, but Mr MacNeil announced in a lengthy Twitter post that he would not return to the Westminster group until at least after the SNP conference in October - and even then only if the party was was able to provide "clarity" on its independence strategy.

He accused the party of being "clueless" on independence and claimed that its leadership had been playing "tricks" on members over the past six years and continually "kicking the can down the road".

Speaking to BBC Radio Scotland on Wednesday, Mr MacNeil said he had "no plans" to join the Alba Party and had not been approached to do so.

[aaid]

40 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

SNP MP Angus MacNeil has party membership suspended

Angus MacNeil has been suspended from the SNP after not taking up an offer to rejoin the party's Westminster group.

The Na h-Eileanan an Iar MP had the whip removed for a week after being involved in a clash with the party's chief whip in Parliament.

He subsequently announced he would sit as an independent MP until at least October.

Mr MacNeill remained an SNP member at that point - but the BBC understands his membership has now been suspended.

An SNP spokesman said: "Angus MacNeil MP was advised by the SNP National Secretary on Wednesday that she considered him to be in breach of the party's code of conduct by his decision to resign from the SNP Westminster parliamentary group.

"Having acknowledged this, Mr MacNeil did not take up the offer to rejoin the SNP parliamentary group and the matter was, therefore, yesterday referred to the SNP Member Conduct Committee for consideration."

Mr MacNeil said: "I did not leave the SNP and I hope the SNP haven't left me, as that was what went wrong with Labour in Scotland".

He is one of the SNP's longest-serving MPs, having first been elected in 2005 but has been a vocal critic of the party leadership in recent years, particularly over its independence strategy.

Mr MacNeil was involved in a row with chief whip Brendan O'Hara earlier this month over Mr MacNeil missing votes in the House of Commons.

It was alleged he threatened Mr O'Hara during the confrontation - which Mr MacNeil denies - and had the whip removed for a week.

That suspension had been due to end earlier this week, but Mr MacNeil announced in a lengthy Twitter post that he would not return to the Westminster group until at least after the SNP conference in October - and even then only if the party was was able to provide "clarity" on its independence strategy.

He accused the party of being "clueless" on independence and claimed that its leadership had been playing "tricks" on members over the past six years and continually "kicking the can down the road".

Speaking to BBC Radio Scotland on Wednesday, Mr MacNeil said he had "no plans" to join the Alba Party and had not been approached to do so.

What did he expect?  It’s hardly possible for someone to be a member of a party but to not take the whip. He should’ve resigned his membership at the same time he declined the whip.  

[Ally Bongo]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

What did he expect?  It’s hardly possible for someone to be a member of a party but to not take the whip. He should’ve resigned his membership at the same time he declined the whip.  

Aye that's the most important bit of the story .............

[mcguffin]

47 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

SNP MP Angus MacNeil has party membership suspended

Angus MacNeil has been suspended from the SNP after not taking up an offer to rejoin the party's Westminster group.

The Na h-Eileanan an Iar MP had the whip removed for a week after being involved in a clash with the party's chief whip in Parliament.

He subsequently announced he would sit as an independent MP until at least October.

Mr MacNeill remained an SNP member at that point - but the BBC understands his membership has now been suspended.

An SNP spokesman said: "Angus MacNeil MP was advised by the SNP National Secretary on Wednesday that she considered him to be in breach of the party's code of conduct by his decision to resign from the SNP Westminster parliamentary group.

"Having acknowledged this, Mr MacNeil did not take up the offer to rejoin the SNP parliamentary group and the matter was, therefore, yesterday referred to the SNP Member Conduct Committee for consideration."

Mr MacNeil said: "I did not leave the SNP and I hope the SNP haven't left me, as that was what went wrong with Labour in Scotland".

He is one of the SNP's longest-serving MPs, having first been elected in 2005 but has been a vocal critic of the party leadership in recent years, particularly over its independence strategy.

Mr MacNeil was involved in a row with chief whip Brendan O'Hara earlier this month over Mr MacNeil missing votes in the House of Commons.

It was alleged he threatened Mr O'Hara during the confrontation - which Mr MacNeil denies - and had the whip removed for a week.

That suspension had been due to end earlier this week, but Mr MacNeil announced in a lengthy Twitter post that he would not return to the Westminster group until at least after the SNP conference in October - and even then only if the party was was able to provide "clarity" on its independence strategy.

He accused the party of being "clueless" on independence and claimed that its leadership had been playing "tricks" on members over the past six years and continually "kicking the can down the road".

Speaking to BBC Radio Scotland on Wednesday, Mr MacNeil said he had "no plans" to join the Alba Party and had not been approached to do so.

The main thing is that he supports Independence. So the SNP/Greens can rely on his support for their continued bid for Scottish Independence.  Other issues don't really matter so much in my opinion.

[PapofGlencoe]

3 hours ago, mcguffin said:

From your graph:
"...the United Kingdom had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 33.5% compared with the OECD average of 34.1%..."

Those numbers look pretty similar (34%). So the UK has 'average' taxation, but some might say we have 'below average services'.

Maybe not so simple? But nice graph all the same.

Yes a few percentages here and there really between the average and places with noticeably better infrastructure than us from my own humble perspective.  interesting nonetheless.

 

 

 

 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

What did he expect?  It’s hardly possible for someone to be a member of a party but to not take the whip. He should’ve resigned his membership at the same time he declined the whip.  

 the oracle telling everyone what to do again

Edited July 14, 2023 by hampden_loon2878

[aaid]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

 the oracle telling everyone what to do again

Very good Tory boy. 

[mcguffin]

6 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Yes a few percentages here and there really between the average and places with noticeably better infrastructure than us from my own humble perspective.  interesting nonetheless.

 

 

 

 

that's my perspective too.

[Barney Rubble]

5 hours ago, aaid said:

Very good Tory boy. 

Really - Is there any need for this?

A while ago you would post well thought out and good content.

Why have you defaulted to unnecessary stuff like the above?

Edited July 14, 2023 by Barney Rubble

[Malcolm]

Personally I would be quite happy to be called Tory boy and not see it as an insult.  I am actually in reAlity politically homeless as I’m not a strong unionist, think many of the tories are dicks, think most of the snp are dicks and don’t really like labour or the Lib Dems (especially ACH)….  So not really loving the options but do somewhat feel compelled to vote or not be able to complain about things. And don’t get me started on the greens…

 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

Really - Is there any need for this?

A while ago you would post well thought out and good content.

Why have you defaulted to unnecessary stuff like the above?

If you look at my post above, a bit above about the OECD I reckon that’s pretty well thought out but what do I get a few posts down from that, some crap play the man not the ball which I’m not accepting. 

Sorry if you’ve been offended.