The Brexit Thread

[phart]

18 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Of course your analogy is reversed in the case of Ireland and the UK.

The EU has enabled this smaller city state to possess capital like never before in its history, as well as given it the political muscle to resist "the dominion of the stronger" when the elephant they've been in bed with has tried to renege on an internationally recognised peace treaty.

It's no my analogy its Thucydides and you seem to have mis-interpeted it. We're talking about Greece where were they able to resist "the dominion of the stronger"? Yanis picked "the weak suffer what they must" as the book title for a reason.

 

So anyway examples of Greece resisting the dominion of the stronger in the context of the EU would be great as I can''t find any really. They got trampled.

[phart]

32 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Of course your analogy is reversed in the case of Ireland and the UK.

The EU has enabled this smaller city state to possess capital like never before in its history, as well as given it the political muscle to resist "the dominion of the stronger" when the elephant they've been in bed with has tried to renege on an internationally recognised peace treaty.

" For the love of gain would reconcile the weaker to the dominion of the stronger "

[ParisInAKilt]

49 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

The EU has enabled this smaller city state to possess capital like never before in its history, as well as given it the political muscle to resist "the dominion of the stronger" when the elephant they've been in bed with has tried to renege on an internationally recognised peace treaty.

Is that a quote from someone?

[Dave78]

31 minutes ago, phart said:

It's no my analogy its Thucydides and you seem to have mis-interpeted it. We're talking about Greece where were they able to resist "the dominion of the stronger"? Yanis picked "the weak suffer what they must" as the book title for a reason.

Aye, i agree Greece were in a weak position, and suffered the consequences.

 

22 minutes ago, phart said:

" For the love of gain would reconcile the weaker to the dominion of the stronger "

Accurate in the context of Greece, but not Ireland. Hardly anyone over here feels in hock to Germany, or 'the stronger'. In fact i think i read Ireland is the most pro-EU member state in the union.

This is in spite of Ireland shouldering the majority of the EU bank bailout cost, which i think most Irish folk recognise it as their own government's failings.

 

5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Is that a quote from someone?

Yes, it's from writings of an ancient Greek philosopher known as Daveucydides78, who lived in the lost city-state of Tamb-aloniki. 

[ParisInAKilt]

19 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, i agree Greece were in a weak position, and suffered the consequences.

 

Accurate in the context of Greece, but not Ireland. Hardly anyone over here feels in hock to Germany, or 'the stronger'. In fact i think i read Ireland is the most pro-EU member state in the union.

This is in spite of Ireland shouldering the majority of the EU bank bailout cost, which i think most Irish folk recognise it as their own government's failings.

 

Yes, it's from writings of an ancient Greek philosopher known as Daveucydides78, who lived in the lost city-state of Tamb-aloniki. 

Haha you’re wasted on here, a job for Brussels EU Globalist HQ surely awaits.

[Rich NATA]

6 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I would say the chief beef Brexiteers have with the EU is their false belief that it has seen too many foreigners come to their country.

And yet they forget more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Rich NATA said:

And yet they forget more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

Exactly. And those Brits crave the right to remain living where they are but that may not possible for them.

[ParisInAKilt]

5 minutes ago, Rich NATA said:

And yet they forget more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

 

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Exactly. And those Brits crave the right to remain living where they are but that may not possible for them.

Ever considered the voters in England equally disillusioned with Westminster like those in Scotland? 

Vote Tory - selfish right wing wankers

Vote Labour - Tory light 

Vote UKIP - racists 

The lack of empathy toward people in England who suffer under Westminster politics is blatant as fuck on here.

Maybe Brexit was there line in the sand, rightly or wrongly 

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 

Ever considered the voters in England equally disillusioned with Westminster like those in Scotland? 

Vote Tory - selfish right wing wankers

Vote Labour - Tory light 

Vote UKIP - racists 

The lack of empathy toward people in England who suffer under Westminster politics is blatant as fuck on here.

Maybe Brexit was there line in the sand, rightly or wrongly 

Yes I do absolutely.

But that is totally up to the English voter alone to attempt to do something about it by taking their vote elsewhere away from the established parties and organising themselves perhaps pushing for English independence.

[Rich NATA]

PIAK,

I don't understand why you quoted Caledonian Craig and myself and I don't understand how your post related Craig or myself. 

[phart]

2 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, i agree Greece were in a weak position, and suffered the consequences.

 

Accurate in the context of Greece, but not Ireland. Hardly anyone over here feels in hock to Germany, or 'the stronger'. In fact i think i read Ireland is the most pro-EU member state in the union.

This is in spite of Ireland shouldering the majority of the EU bank bailout cost, which i think most Irish folk recognise it as their own government's failings.

 

Yes, it's from writings of an ancient Greek philosopher known as Daveucydides78, who lived in the lost city-state of Tamb-aloniki. 

Well it was Greece I was talking about.

You might not think you're in hock but you've said " he EU has enabled this smaller city state to possess capital like never before in its history " and "Ireland shouldering the majority of the EU bank bailout cost" So the money came from somewhere and pots of gold don't exist.

Either way it's a different discussion maybe this Union will be more equitable than the current one we're in for it's smaller members.

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes I do absolutely.

But that is totally up to the English voter alone to attempt to do something about it by taking their vote elsewhere away from the established parties and organising themselves perhaps pushing for English independence.

Hahaha cmon, they’d be crucified for trying that. 

Little Englander’s etc

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, Rich NATA said:

PIAK,

I don't understand why you quoted Caledonian Craig and myself and I don't understand how your post related Craig or myself. 

Looked like you were both having a go at English Brexit voters 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Hahaha cmon, they’d be crucified for trying that. 

Little Englander’s etc

Well no they wouldn't....not from me. That may very well be heard from unionist backers though most definitely. I, being a Scottish independence supporter, desiring to break clear of Westminster rule, would certainly not criticise English people for feeling an urge to do similar.

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Looked like you were both having a go at English Brexit voters 

Yes I was having a go at ones with a certain type of reasoning for it but ones doing it for other reasons I have no problem with.

[ThistleWhistle]

4 hours ago, phart said:

Economic victim blaming, aye their skirt was too short.

The Greek guy/Minister of Finance Yanis Varoufakis wrote all about this in his book ages ago, i've only been linking it in every discussion about europe on this board for the last 6 years. I think thplinth is the only one who has taken the time to read it.

Have you read the one where he's explaining economics to his daughter?  That's quite interesting and his main beef seems to be with the banks rather than the EU.  During his negotiation as Greece finance minister his problem with the restructure from memory was the new payment terms essentially would not only bankrupt Greece but it would transfer the debt from the banks to EU taxpayers. 

 

4 hours ago, phart said:

Thucydides could be describing the EU instead of the Peloponnesian War with quotes like

" For the love of gain would reconcile the weaker to the dominion of the stronger, and the possession of capital enabled the more powerful to reduce the smaller cities to subjection."

Of course it was CITY-States as opposed to NATION-States and the Laconian Empire being opposed not building ourselves up to match the U.S.

I wonder how much US influence is in Brexit anyway, this fucks up the EU quite a bit and the US has a dominant policy of maintaining their hegemony as the only superpower.

Did Saudi Arabia not seriously threaten to sell oil in Euros at one point before the bank crisis as it was more stable than the dollar then the euro took an absolute pounding? 

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Well no they wouldn't....not from me. That may very well be heard from unionist backers though most definitely. I, being a Scottish independence supporter, desiring to break clear of Westminster rule, would certainly not criticise English people for feeling an urge to do similar.

Given Westminster is seen as the English parliament I’m not sure how possible that is. 

 

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes I was having a go at ones with a certain type of reasoning for it but ones doing it for other reasons I have no problem with.

I’d be mindful of the narrative the media plays, most voters won’t the same thing 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Given Westminster is seen as the English parliament I’m not sure how possible that is. 

 

No actually it isn't. During the Scottish Independence referendum and after it many English people were asking where was England's version of Holyrood. A parliament containing only English MP's voting and passing bills on purely English matters. There are far more of them than you think. They recognise Westminster for what it is.

[ParisInAKilt]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No actually it isn't. During the Scottish Independence referendum and after it many English people were asking where was England's version of Holyrood. A parliament containing only English MP's voting and passing bills on purely English matters. There are far more of them than you think. They recognise Westminster for what it is.

Aye you can move parliament but you’d still have the same parasites. 

[Rich NATA]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Looked like you were both having a go at English Brexit voters 

I don't think I even mentioned the English.

 

My post read: 

'... and yet they forget more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

 

The 'They' referred to Brexiteers.

I was just highlighting that when Brexiteers talk about immigration into the UK, they neglect the fact more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

 

Another thing to know is that there are fewer EU immigrants in the UK than there are non-EU.

Only once, was there more EU immigration into the UK than non-EU immigration in a single calendar year.

 

 

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Aye you can move parliament but you’d still have the same parasites. 

Perhaps but perhaps not. The alternative? Continue with the pathetic option that exists at the moment.

[ParisInAKilt]

4 minutes ago, Rich NATA said:

I don't think I even mentioned the English.

 

My post read: 

'... and yet they forget more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

 

The 'They' referred to Brexiteers.

I was just highlighting that when Brexiteers talk about immigration into the UK, they neglect the fact more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

 

Another thing to know is that there are fewer EU immigrants in the UK than there are non-EU.

Only once, was there more EU immigration into the UK than non-EU immigration in a single calendar year.

 

 

 

 

Anytime I read brexiteers I just think of when the media called independence voters separatists 

I don’t know, If I’m someone not happy with immigration into my country, the fact someone else is living in Spain would mean very little to me. 

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, Rich NATA said:

The 'They' referred to Brexiteers.

I was just highlighting that when Brexiteers talk about immigration into the UK, they neglect the fact more than 5 million born 'n' bred Brits live outside of the UK.

 

Come on Rich, they're ex-pats not immigrants.  There's a difference, somehow.

[Rich NATA]

1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I don’t know, If I’m someone not happy with immigration into my country, the fact someone else is living in Spain would mean very little to me. 

Are you unhappy with immigration into your country?

[Dave78]

25 minutes ago, phart said:

Well it was Greece I was talking about.

Ok, cool, i get that.  You mentioned nation states below. I thought you were comparing the weaker city states to weaker EU nation states (which of course includes Ireland). No?

 

5 hours ago, phart said:

Thucydides could be describing the EU instead of the Peloponnesian War with quotes like

...

Of course it was CITY-States as opposed to NATION-States

 

 

29 minutes ago, phart said:

You might not think you're in hock but you've said " he EU has enabled this smaller city state to possess capital like never before in its history " and "Ireland shouldering the majority of the EU bank bailout cost" So the money came from somewhere and pots of gold don't exist.

I dunno... Ireland is still way richer than it's ever been thanks to the EU, and seems comfortable enough wearing the bank bailout debt.

As for pots of gold... It's Ireland FFS... i have some 'little people' i need to introduce you to!