Squirrelhumper Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Mazziessc said: Please Ayr's greatest achievement is winning the second tier of Scottish football. Similarly to Dumbarton they lose a lot of what could be their fan base to the Old firm. Historically and currently Dumbarton are a bigger, better club. Ayr have a bigger fanbase and have more recent success in terms of getting to National Cup Semis/Final. For example, Ayr pulled 9-10,000 for a Semi Final against us at 1pm on a Saturday at Hampden. I doubt Dumbarton would pull 5k against anyone, anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said: Ayr have a bigger fanbase and have more recent success in terms of getting to National Cup Semis/Final. For example, Ayr pulled 9-10,000 for a Semi Final against us at 1pm on a Saturday at Hampden. I doubt Dumbarton would pull 5k against anyone, anywhere. Did Ayr have that many fans at the semi ? Thought it was around the 6 or 7 mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazziessc Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Ayr have a bigger fanbase and have more recent success in terms of getting to National Cup Semis/Final. For example, Ayr pulled 9-10,000 for a Semi Final against us at 1pm on a Saturday at Hampden. I doubt Dumbarton would pull 5k against anyone, anywhere. Impossible to tell how many they would attract. A cup semi pulls many folk out the woodwork for a day oot for there wee toon. Where's the 1000's of Ayr fans the rest of the time? Where were they on the first game of the cup run? My only gripe with Dumbarton is that they are at their peak in the bottom half of the Championship, and content to stay there.As bad as it sounds promotion could be a disaster to them should a miracle happen and they ever got up through the play off's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, wheres the pies said: Did Ayr have that many fans at the semi ? Thought it was around the 6 or 7 mark I thought it was 16,000 or so Killie and the rest Ayr. We definitely had 5,000+ more but we didn't have 18-19k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Celtic and Rangers at the top, you could argue either one is bigger. Huge daylight then Aberdeen and a small gap to Hearts. Followed by Hibs and Dundee United at the same level. dundee next. Then the likes of killie, motherwell, St mirren, maybe dunfermline (via history) St.Johnstone, Falkirk, ICT, Ross Hard to say after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mazziessc said: I’d like to see them back up but I worry they could become like Falkirk as an example. (although UTD have a bigger fan base) Struggle in and around the play off's for a few season but never getting up. I don’t doubt that when they do get up they’ll stay there though. It's quite possible. Maybe more likely is that they'll be like Hibs, diddle around downstairs for a few years before finally getting their act together. Worst case scenario - we end up like Dundee and are down for best part of a decade. Edited May 3, 2017 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Is it just me that thinks Hearts are a bigger club with more potential than Aberdeen? Based in a fairly major international city, 16,000 sold out season tickets every year, fans all over east central Scotland. Not much in it, but if I were a Lithuanian oligarch I know whose wall I'd be spunking my money up against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 minute ago, adamntg said: It's quite possible. Maybe more likely is that they'll be like Hibs, diddle around downstairs for a few years before finally getting their act together. Worst case scenario - we end up like Dundee and are down for best part of a decade. I personally hope Utd go up via the play off this season, preferably at the expense of Hamilton. That way St. Mirren's march to inevitable Championship title glory next season can go completely unobstructed. N.B. - By "St. Mirren" I obviously mean Jack Ross's team assembled in January and who since then have clearly been the best team in the league. Not Alex Rae's bunch of duds from the first half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Hearts just haven't been able to take that extra step and have a sustained era of relative success in the last few decades. (or ever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Mazziessc said: Impossible to tell how many they would attract. A cup semi pulls many folk out the woodwork for a day oot for there wee toon. Where's the 1000's of Ayr fans the rest of the time? Where were they on the first game of the cup run? Same with any team, they attract more for big games. Ayr have traditionally had a bigger support (in my lifetime anyway) and still do even though they're sh1te. I can remember Ayr averaging about 4k or so under Yogi Hughes so the fans are there. They've just been so p1sh for so many years that they've probably lost a lot of regulars. It's all down to perception anyway. They've "won fcuk all and never will" as our song goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Same with any team, they attract more for big games. Ayr have traditionally had a bigger support (in my lifetime anyway) and still do even though they're sh1te. I can remember Ayr averaging about 4k or so under Yogi Hughes so the fans are there. They've just been so p1sh for so many years that they've probably lost a lot of regulars. It's all down to perception anyway. They've "won fcuk all and never will" as our song goes! I take solace from the fact that Mazzie thinks Dumbarton are a bigger team than Ayr. It assists in the rendering of his opinion that St. Mirren are not a big team, as even more ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 I've no real gripe with Hibs, I just think other than supporter numbers it's hard to put them on a level with Hearts, Dundee united or Aberdeen. Size of support is the only thing that lifts Hibs above Motherwell, Killie etc. Killie and to a lesser extent Dundee and Dunfermline arguably have more illustrious history than likes of Motherwell. Motherwells main asset in this debate is consistency in the top flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal smith Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 38 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: I've no real gripe with Hibs, I just think other than supporter numbers it's hard to put them on a level with Hearts, Dundee united or Aberdeen. Size of support is the only thing that lifts Hibs above Motherwell, Killie etc. Killie and to a lesser extent Dundee and Dunfermline arguably have more illustrious history than likes of Motherwell. Motherwells main asset in this debate is consistency in the top flight. Not that I like to talk up Hibs but I would say they are the 5th biggest club. What are we measuring it on? size of support, honours won? they have 10 major honours while the clubs you have quoted have won either 4 or 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Based on size of the clubs 1. Celtic 2. Rangers - assuming we are treating the current club as being the same as the one that was liquidated 3. Hearts 4. Hibs 5. Aberdeen 6. Dundee 7. Dundee Utd 8 lost interest now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, dipped flake said: Based on size of the clubs 1. Celtic 2. Rangers - assuming we are treating the current club as being the same as the one that was liquidated 3. Hearts 4. Hibs 5. Aberdeen 6. Dundee 7. Dundee Utd 8 lost interest now interested to know what your criteria is for "size". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 31 minutes ago, dipped flake said: Based on size of the clubs 1. Celtic 2. Rangers - assuming we are treating the current club as being the same as the one that was liquidated 3. Hearts 4. Hibs 5. Aberdeen 6. Dundee 7. Dundee Utd 8 lost interest now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marky said: precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 38 minutes ago, ShedTA said: interested to know what your criteria is for "size". Achievements before 1974 presumably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, adamntg said: Achievements before 1974 presumably. Major trophies won since 1962 - 1 Major trophies won since 1974 - 0 Number of finishes in the top half of the top league in the last 40 years - I'm guessing here, but surely no more than 3 or 4. Seasons spent outside the top division in the last 40 years - hunners Average attendance over the last 40 years - 5,000 max??? As per my original post, Dundee are at best one of the big wee teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazziessc Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said: Same with any team, they attract more for big games. Ayr have traditionally had a bigger support (in my lifetime anyway) and still do even though they're sh1te. I can remember Ayr averaging about 4k or so under Yogi Hughes so the fans are there. They've just been so p1sh for so many years that they've probably lost a lot of regulars. It's all down to perception anyway. They've "won fcuk all and never will" as our song goes! Mibbi I'm blinded by the sons league finishes of late. We'll agree they are the same size 1 hour ago, Marky said: I take solace from the fact that Mazzie thinks Dumbarton are a bigger team than Ayr. It assists in the rendering of his opinion that St. Mirren are not a big team, as even more ludicrous. Iv'e a feeling you wont like my opinion unless its ST Mirren are the greatest club in history They are not btw. Like I said earlier, they have found their level. It be a shame on them though if they ended up third tier next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasMc1973 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 the here and now. Celtic everybody else.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasMc1973 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 League: see rangers include a shared title in their stars Club Winners Runners-up Third Last win Rangers[note 3] 54 30 18 2010–11 Celtic 48 31 17 2016–17 Aberdeen 4 15 9 1984–85 Heart of Midlothian 4 14 18 1959–60 Hibernian 4 6 13 1951–52 Dumbarton[note 3] 2 0 0 1891–92 Motherwell 1 7 8 1931–32 Kilmarnock 1 4 3 1964–65 Dundee 1 4 1 1961–62 Dundee United 1 0 8 1982–83 Third Lanark 1 0 2 1903–04 Airdrieonians (1878) 0 4 2 — Falkirk 0 2 1 — Morton[note 4] 0 1 4 — Clyde 0 0 3 — Partick Thistle 0 0 3 — St Johnstone 0 0 3 — Dunfermline Athletic 0 0 2 — East Fife 0 0 2 — St Mirren 0 0 2 — Inverness Caledonian Thistle 0 0 1 — Livingston 0 0 1 — Raith Rovers 0 0 1 — St Bernard's 0 0 1 scottish cup wins: Club Wins Last win Runners-up Last final lost Celtic 36 2013 18 2002 Rangers 33 2009 18 2016 Queen's Park 10 1893 2 1900 Heart of Midlothian 8 2012 6 1996 Aberdeen 7 1990 8 2000 Hibernian 3 2016 11 2013 Kilmarnock 3 1997 5 1960 Vale of Leven 3 1879 4 1890 Clyde 3 1958 3 1949 St Mirren 3 1987 3 1962 Dundee United 2 2010 8 2014 Motherwell 2 1991 5 2011 Third Lanark 2 1905 4 1936 Falkirk 2 1957 3 2015 Dunfermline Athletic 2 1968 3 2007 Renton 2 1888 3 1895 Dumbarton 1 1883 5 1897 Dundee 1 1910 4 2003 Airdrieonians (1878) 1 1924 3 1995 East Fife 1 1938 2 1950 Greenock Morton 1 1922 1 1948 Partick Thistle 1 1921 1 1930 St. Bernard's 1 1895 — — Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1 2015 — — St Johnstone 1 2014 — — Hamilton Academical — — 2 1935 Albion Rovers — — 1 1920 Cambuslang — — 1 1888 Clydesdale — — 1 1874 Gretna — — 1 2006 Queen of the South — — 1 2008 Raith Rovers — — 1 1913 Ross County — — 1 2010 Thornliebank — — 1 1880 the diddy cup: Club Wins Last win Runners-up Last final lost Rangers 27 2011 7 2009 Celtic 16 2016 15 2012 Aberdeen 6 2014 8 2016 Heart of Midlothian 4 1962 3 2013 Hibernian 3 2007 7 2016 Dundee 3 1973 3 1995 East Fife 3 1953 — — Dundee United 2 1980 5 2015 Kilmarnock 1 2012 5 2007 Partick Thistle 1 1971 3 1958 St Mirren 1 2013 2 2010 Motherwell 1 1950 2 2005 Raith Rovers 1 1994 1 1949 Ross County 1 2016 — — Livingston 1 2004 — — Dunfermline Athletic — — 3 2006 St Johnstone — — 2 1998 Inverness CT — — 1 2014 Ayr United — — 1 2002 Greenock Morton — — 1 1963 Third Lanark — — 1 1959 Falkirk — — 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Mazziessc said: Mibbi I'm blinded by the sons league finishes of late. We'll agree they are the same size Iv'e a feeling you wont like my opinion unless its ST Mirren are the greatest club in history They are not btw. Like I said earlier, they have found their level. It be a shame on them though if they ended up third tier next season. Don't worry Mazzie. That is not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, JasMc1973 said: League: see rangers include a shared title in their stars Club Winners Runners-up Third Last win Rangers[note 3] 54 30 18 2010–11 Celtic 48 31 17 2016–17 Aberdeen 4 15 9 1984–85 Heart of Midlothian 4 14 18 1959–60 Hibernian 4 6 13 1951–52 Dumbarton[note 3] 2 0 0 1891–92 Motherwell 1 7 8 1931–32 Kilmarnock 1 4 3 1964–65 Dundee 1 4 1 1961–62 Dundee United 1 0 8 1982–83 Third Lanark 1 0 2 1903–04 Airdrieonians (1878) 0 4 2 — Falkirk 0 2 1 — Morton[note 4] 0 1 4 — Clyde 0 0 3 — Partick Thistle 0 0 3 — St Johnstone 0 0 3 — Dunfermline Athletic 0 0 2 — East Fife 0 0 2 — St Mirren 0 0 2 — Inverness Caledonian Thistle 0 0 1 — Livingston 0 0 1 — Raith Rovers 0 0 1 — St Bernard's 0 0 1 scottish cup wins: Club Wins Last win Runners-up Last final lost Celtic 36 2013 18 2002 Rangers 33 2009 18 2016 Queen's Park 10 1893 2 1900 Heart of Midlothian 8 2012 6 1996 Aberdeen 7 1990 8 2000 Hibernian 3 2016 11 2013 Kilmarnock 3 1997 5 1960 Vale of Leven 3 1879 4 1890 Clyde 3 1958 3 1949 St Mirren 3 1987 3 1962 Dundee United 2 2010 8 2014 Motherwell 2 1991 5 2011 Third Lanark 2 1905 4 1936 Falkirk 2 1957 3 2015 Dunfermline Athletic 2 1968 3 2007 Renton 2 1888 3 1895 Dumbarton 1 1883 5 1897 Dundee 1 1910 4 2003 Airdrieonians (1878) 1 1924 3 1995 East Fife 1 1938 2 1950 Greenock Morton 1 1922 1 1948 Partick Thistle 1 1921 1 1930 St. Bernard's 1 1895 — — Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1 2015 — — St Johnstone 1 2014 — — Hamilton Academical — — 2 1935 Albion Rovers — — 1 1920 Cambuslang — — 1 1888 Clydesdale — — 1 1874 Gretna — — 1 2006 Queen of the South — — 1 2008 Raith Rovers — — 1 1913 Ross County — — 1 2010 Thornliebank — — 1 1880 the diddy cup: Club Wins Last win Runners-up Last final lost Rangers 27 2011 7 2009 Celtic 16 2016 15 2012 Aberdeen 6 2014 8 2016 Heart of Midlothian 4 1962 3 2013 Hibernian 3 2007 7 2016 Dundee 3 1973 3 1995 East Fife 3 1953 — — Dundee United 2 1980 5 2015 Kilmarnock 1 2012 5 2007 Partick Thistle 1 1971 3 1958 St Mirren 1 2013 2 2010 Motherwell 1 1950 2 2005 Raith Rovers 1 1994 1 1949 Ross County 1 2016 — — Livingston 1 2004 — — Dunfermline Athletic — — 3 2006 St Johnstone — — 2 1998 Inverness CT — — 1 2014 Ayr United — — 1 2002 Greenock Morton — — 1 1963 Third Lanark — — 1 1959 Falkirk — — 1 I refer you to the OP. Since the 1960s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 4 hours ago, adamntg said: Is it just me that thinks Hearts are a bigger club with more potential than Aberdeen? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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