Asad Shah murder

[Lamia]

6 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

And ?

Muslims are killing other Muslims daily for being the wrong Muslims,

And other muslims aren't.

[Ally Bongo]

6 minutes ago, Lamia said:

And other muslims aren't.

You are misreading it

 

 

[MacTaz]

So a muslim killed another muslim because he wasn't a good enough Muslim ..........? Christians kill other Christians everyday of the week . Catholics killed Protestants (And other other catholics ) for nigh on 40 years in N.Ireland.(The centenary of which is now being celebrated )   Christians murdered other Christians because they thought they could do "magic " (Salem witch trials) 

 

Hands up all those who are now disembarking from the Outrage bus because it wasn't a right wing racist nutter who killed him ? 

[Lamia]

19 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

 

Hands up all those who are now disembarking from the Outrage bus because it wasn't a right wing racist nutter who killed him ? 

 

Only the reactionary people like you. We all remember De Menezes. Irony overload!

[MacTaz]

3 minutes ago, Lamia said:

 

Only the reactionary people like you. We all remember De Menezes. Irony overload!

Aye right , you were dying to hear he was murdered by some right wing BNP/EDL nutter , preferably an ex military one !! 

[Lamia]

5 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

Aye right , you were dying to hear he was murdered by some right wing BNP/EDL nutter , preferably an ex military one !! 

No I wasn't. Don't you presume that everyone is like you.

[ErsatzThistle]

23 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

. Catholics killed Protestants (And other other catholics ) for nigh on 40 years in N.Ireland.

Did Protestants not kill Catholics or did it only go one way ? 

Some of the obsessive, borderline far-right, views expressed by a couple of posters on this thread make me fücking ashamed to be Scottish. We are better than this.

I have many Muslim friends, they love Scotland as much as we do and they were utterly appalled at the recent terrorist attacks.

[MacTaz]

Sorry St Lamia ...I forgot you are perfect !

[Lamia]

4 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

Sorry St Lamia ...I forgot you are perfect !

 

No I am not perfect I just have never once jumped to a conclusion. I always and mean always wait for the facts. It isn't hard - you should give it a go.

[phart]

2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Go and look up how many Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and Non Believers were slaughtered in the Jihadic conquests

There are indeed plenty of examples over the last 1400 years that can easily be found on google

 

No you said " that ideology in the Quran/Hadith gives rise to terrorism " Not folk who are Muslim warring against geographical neighbours. You're talking about the ideology that gives rise to "Terrorism" and something inherent in Islam that gives rise to it, pointing out warring with neighbours (something that is universal to human's) isn't really inherent in the Quran Ideology it's human nature. Cause everyone the last 1400 years regardless of religion has slaughtered folk. So i'm struggling to see the distinction.

So easily found that after twice asking you couldn't find them? That would suggest not so easy.

[phart]

1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Did Protestants not kill Catholics or did it only go one way ? 

Some of the obsessive, borderline far-right, views expressed by a couple of posters on this thread make me fücking ashamed to be Scottish. We are better than this.

I have many Muslim friends, they love Scotland as much as we do and they were utterly appalled at the recent terrorist attacks.

We know now that the security services were playing both sides off of each other to prolong the conflict. Using the thugs on the loyalist side to take out the catholic organisers and having plants in IRA cells, picking targets etc. Rulers try and play the masses against each other.

The views are just regurgitated uttering of folk like Sam Harris. He's a no-conservative ideologue who can't answer the question i asked in this thread either. In fact in debate with Dan Carlin he agreed Islam isn't anymore dangerous as any other extreme ideology . This is how irrational he is. Remember Ben Carson the half wit presidential candidate. (the guy who thinks the pyramids were built to house grain)

That guy here is the irrationality of Sam Harris, here is what he said.

Given a choice between Noam Chomsky and Ben Carson, in terms of the totality of their understanding of what’s happening now in the world, I’d vote for Ben Carson every time. Ben Carson is a dangerously deluded religious imbecile, Ben Carson does not…the fact that he is a candidate for president is a scandal…but at the very least he can be counted on to sort of get this one right. He understands that jihadists are the enemy.

His views on Muslims means that he'd prefer a dangerously deluded religious imbecile in power merely cause they share the same views on Islam (views he's actually recanted in debate).

It's PROPAGANDA.

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by phart

[phart]

Also just to point out in the 1940's the Japanese used Suicide attacks against Americans and in Vietnam Suicide attacks were used as well against the French and US occupying forces. So suicide bombers exist outside of the narrow circle described in that meme picture thing.

Tamil Tigers used suicide attacks they are mostly Hindu.

 

[Ally Bongo]

59 minutes ago, phart said:

No you said " that ideology in the Quran/Hadith gives rise to terrorism " Not folk who are Muslim warring against geographical neighbours. You're talking about the ideology that gives rise to "Terrorism" and something inherent in Islam that gives rise to it, pointing out warring with neighbours (something that is universal to human's) isn't really inherent in the Quran Ideology it's human nature. Cause everyone the last 1400 years regardless of religion has slaughtered folk. So i'm struggling to see the distinction.

So easily found that after twice asking you couldn't find them? That would suggest not so easy.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse

ideology in the Quran/Hadith gives rise to extremism -including terrorism

[Ally Bongo]

44 minutes ago, phart said:

The views are just regurgitated uttering of folk like Sam Harris. He's a no-conservative ideologue who can't answer the question i asked in this thread either. In fact in debate with Dan Carlin he agreed Islam isn't anymore dangerous as any other extreme ideology . This is how irrational he is. Remember Ben Carson the half wit presidential candidate. (the guy who thinks the pyramids were built to house grain)

That guy here is the irrationality of Sam Harris, here is what he said.

Given a choice between Noam Chomsky and Ben Carson, in terms of the totality of their understanding of what’s happening now in the world, I’d vote for Ben Carson every time. Ben Carson is a dangerously deluded religious imbecile, Ben Carson does not…the fact that he is a candidate for president is a scandal…but at the very least he can be counted on to sort of get this one right. He understands that jihadists are the enemy.

His views on Muslims means that he'd prefer a dangerously deluded religious imbecile in power merely cause they share the same views on Islam (views he's actually recanted in debate).

It's PROPAGANDA.

 

The analogy in context is a good one - but thats all it is - an analogy 

 

[phart]

20 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I think you are being deliberately obtuse

ideology in the Quran/Hadith gives rise to extremism -including terrorism

 

What ideology? It's becoming apparent you cannot answer the question. so i'll stop asking it.

Just putting in the original quote again, so chinese whispers doesn't affect it.

" Muslim apologists deny that ideology in the Quran/Hadith gives rise to terrorism "

Edited March 28, 2016 by phart

[Ally Bongo]

6 minutes ago, phart said:

 

What ideology? It's becoming apparent you cannot answer the question. so i'll stop asking it.

You really want me to give you paragraphs from the Quran/Hadith that give rise to and justify extremism ?

Seriously ?

 

[Ally Bongo]

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/paris-attacks-isis-islam-quran-hadith-muslims-hindus-terrorism-religious-intolerance-liberals/story/1/7486.html

One thing that is often forgotten is that we're dealing with a text that is nearly 1,400 years old. The circumstances under which Islam was born warranted strict measures. Violence was a part of the daily life in the desert. In the wink of an eye, a neighbouring tribe could attack and loot and kill. The code of conduct of that era cannot be mimicked today. And herein lies the dissonance in understanding. It is the average Muslim who has come out of the traditional text and moulded his life based on secular values. And it is the extremist Muslim who is blindly clinging on to the letter of the Quran instead of the spirit. By claiming that there is nothing wrong with the texts, we are actually propagating a falsehood. Every religious text has contextual bits that are outdated. Recognising them and purging them is the task of internal critics. Of course, there will be an initial resistance to change, but if the proposed changes lead to a better quality of life and better inclusion into the mainstream, they will be accepted within a generation.

[phart]

12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

You really want me to give you paragraphs from the Quran/Hadith that give rise to and justify extremism ?

Seriously ?

 

No originally i wanted you to give examples of the terrorism unique to Islam that resulted from 600AD to world war I, you weren't able to do that. So it got me thinking, Well if Islam is what you said it is then there must be, unique to Islam, examples littering history. So I was hoping to see examples of this. As if the ideology was the problem then we'd have felt it's stamp all the way through history.

 

[phart]

9 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/paris-attacks-isis-islam-quran-hadith-muslims-hindus-terrorism-religious-intolerance-liberals/story/1/7486.html

One thing that is often forgotten is that we're dealing with a text that is nearly 1,400 years old. The circumstances under which Islam was born warranted strict measures. Violence was a part of the daily life in the desert. In the wink of an eye, a neighbouring tribe could attack and loot and kill. The code of conduct of that era cannot be mimicked today. And herein lies the dissonance in understanding. It is the average Muslim who has come out of the traditional text and moulded his life based on secular values. And it is the extremist Muslim who is blindly clinging on to the letter of the Quran instead of the spirit. By claiming that there is nothing wrong with the texts, we are actually propagating a falsehood. Every religious text has contextual bits that are outdated. Recognising them and purging them is the task of internal critics. Of course, there will be an initial resistance to change, but if the proposed changes lead to a better quality of life and better inclusion into the mainstream, they will be accepted within a generation.

I'll take the debate up with Hari then since you're subcontracting your thoughts to him.

Although "purging" the Koran doesn't really seem a good way to De-escalate violence we can give it a try. The Koran is full of anachronistic bullshit by the way, it's not the word of god. For literal interpreters it just gives them the "authority" of god then they can do what they want.

I'm just asking what is the ideology unique to Islam that requires it to be viewed differently from other ideologies.

As already pointed out Japanese and Vietnamese people suicide bombed occupying forces in the last century, it's an extremely effective weapon of war.

[Squirrelhumper]

I stay on Minard Road. Utterly horrendous on Thursday. 

I was in Sweeneys watching the Scotland game and it's frightening to think this happened yards away whilst we were oblivious watching the game. 

Shawlands been extremelyeerie this weekend. 

[Ally Bongo]

18 minutes ago, phart said:

I'll take the debate up with Hari then since you're subcontracting your thoughts to him.

Although "purging" the Koran doesn't really seem a good way to De-escalate violence we can give it a try. The Koran is full of anachronistic bullshit by the way, it's not the word of god. For literal interpreters it just gives them the "authority" of god then they can do what they want.

I'm just asking what is the ideology unique to Islam that requires it to be viewed differently from other ideologies.

As already pointed out Japanese and Vietnamese people suicide bombed occupying forces in the last century, it's an extremely effective weapon of war.

Id say it was Sharia, Jihad and Martyrdom

Thats why the West is more concerned with Middle Eastern nuclear intentions rather than that of say North Korea.

The difference between Japanese Kamikaze & Vietnamese to Islamic suicide bombers would be i guess specific military targets compared to indescriminate civilian ones

Im going to give it a rest as i'll probably getting be a visit from M15 on my google search history no doubt

BTW the Harris/Chomsky spat is really sad and something we could do without as its been jumped on by the likes of Reza Aslan & The Young Turks etc to try and discredit Harris 

I guess its a continuation of Chomsky falling out with Hitchens in his later years.

Hitchens saying Chomsky would have left Milosevic to get on with it if it had been up to him wasnt nice

[phart]

5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Id say it was Sharia, Jihad and Martyrdom

Thats why the West is more concerned with Middle Eastern nuclear intentions rather than that of say North Korea.

The difference between Japanese Kamikaze & Vietnamese to Islamic suicide bombers would be i guess specific military targets compared to indescriminate civilian ones

Im going to give it a rest as i'll probably getting be a visit from M15 on my google search history no doubt

BTW the Harris/Chomsky spat is really sad and something we could do without as its been jumped on by the likes of Reza Aslan & The Young Turks etc to try and discredit Harris 

I guess its a continuation of Chomsky falling out with Hitchens in his later years.

Hitchens saying Chomsky would have left Milosevic to get on with it if it had been up to him wasnt nice

Yeah and obviously Wahhabi Salafism which is a newer version/interpetation of the religion. Martyrdom is universal though "dulce et decorum est" and all that.

Yeah I need to do other things too, Nah Vietnamese was south Vietnam civilians as well as troops. Japan never got near Civilian areas.

Not really read much of Harris/chomsky argument, I listened to the Dan Carlin (Hardcore History) and him. I don't listen to Reza (beyond a couple of interviews, one on CNN and maybe one with Maher).

It's an interesting subject and one we wont be moving away from soon.

[Ally Bongo]

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