Scunnered Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Fair enough. I wasn't aware that had been stated so specifically. But my point was more just to show that there are more progressive and genuinely economically rewarding frameworks for corp tax if governments wish to design it that way. Most people pick on corp tax as the poster-child gift to capitalism but subsidies of other descriptions are sometimes far more pernicious IMO. I've not examined the SNP budget so can't comment on it, but within the restraints of the block grant I wouldn't agree that a specific one-off budget would indelibly mark you out politically as anything in particular. As I said when I first brought the budget up in October, I was ready to defend the budget against my No voting left comrades on the grounds of block grant cuts... But there really is no defending it. The quote I posted on the previous post is also taken from the budget. When 'reform' is mentioned regarding public srvices, especially when the third sector is concerned is terrifying. If a Labour government made such a statement there would he hysteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giric878 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 how would you define the third sector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 how would you define the third sector? Not sure if its a serious question... I define third sector as most people would, voluntary programmes and charities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giric878 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 are independent from government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 are independent from government? Not affiliated, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 are independent from government? I'd suggest that in many cases it's a conduit for government money because it's cheaper to distribute it via this channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giric878 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 is the distribution of that government money a case of "if your face fits"? Why is it cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 is the distribution of that government money a case of "if your face fits"? Why is it cheaper? On what grounds could it be if your face fits? Cheaper because there's less bureaucracy required to support decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 On what grounds could it be if your face fits? Cheaper because there's less bureaucracy required to support decision making. Less scrutiny of public money? Less accountability? More nepotism? The third sector is doing what all government should be doing. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Less scrutiny of public money? Less accountability? More nepotism? The third sector is doing what all government should be doing. J The charities are responsible to the OSCR. I'd argue the third sector is now a spectrum ranging from doing what all government should be doing (food banks) to being the government (Creative Scotland). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 The SNP repeatedly stated that in an Independent Scotland they promised to invest in public services. They could not have been any more clearer. As i work in the public service this was important to me obviously. Only with Independence can that be acted upon Within the UK, as we all know, any Scottish Government's hands are tied with the pocket money we get back from Westminster and how they distribute that Westminster policy on the private and public sector from Labour and Tory Governments is to cut the public and give perks to the private regardless of how the economy is doing In the boom years Labour started the cuts & privatisation of the public sector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 The SNP repeatedly stated that in an Independent Scotland they promised to invest in public services. They could not have been any more clearer. As i work in the public service this was important to me obviously. Only with Independence can that be acted upon Within the UK, as we all know, any Scottish Government's hands are tied with the pocket money we get back from Westminster and how they distribute that Westminster policy on the private and public sector from Labour and Tory Governments is to cut the public and give perks to the private regardless of how the economy is doing In the boom years Labour started the cuts & privatisation of the public sector Their intentions stated differently. Politicians lie, the SNP are no different. They have previous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Their intentions stated differently. Politicians lie, the SNP are no different. They have previous. You can only have "previous" when you have full control of the economy FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Interesting choice of attire by Murphy, especially as he used to tell everyone he was "Glasgow born Irish" in his student days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 You can only have "previous" when you have full control of the economy FFS I thought it was pretty clear I meant they have previous of lying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Interesting choice of attire by Murphy, especially as he used to tell everyone he was "Glasgow born Irish" in his student days. Whilst campaigning vociferously for troops out of Northern Ireland also ....a point clearly missed by his Orange Order pals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Following on from Scunnered's comments it was interesting to hear one of the first callers to Morning Call say that appointing Murphy was the best way of stopping the SNP turning Scotland into a "Soviet style socialist republic" On the other hand the first caller had said it was a disastrous decision and the death knell of Scottish Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Following on from Scunnered's comments it was interesting to hear one of the first callers to Morning Call say that appointing Murphy was the best way of stopping the SNP turning Scotland into a "Soviet style socialist republic" On the other hand the first caller had said it was a disastrous decision and the death knell of Scottish Labour. I'd be more inclined to agree with the first caller. Saw someone refer to the SNP last night as "The new party for the man on the street"... I wept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'd be more inclined to agree with the first caller. Saw someone refer to the SNP last night as "The new party for the man on the street"... I wept In comparison to Labour ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Murphy's theme song should be Karma Chameleon. He changes his views to suit the prevailing political tide. That clip of him running along wearing a Scotland top is just so stage managed that it oozes insincerity and smarm, especially as he has described himself as Glasgow-born Irish. Murphy is the best Christmas present the independence movement could have wished for. Outside the media bubble, he is regarded with contempt, disgust and derision. London Labour's man in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 In comparison to Labour ? I'd have disputed anyone calling Labour the party for the man on the street to be fair. Kitty Cat Boyd got it spot on for me last night when she said that the left wing narrative of the Independence campaign captured the imagination of many in building a fairer country, and now the same people are flooding to the SNP, totally at ends with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'd have disputed anyone calling Labour the party for the man on the street to be fair. Kitty Cat Boyd got it spot on for me last night when she said that the left wing narrative of the Independence campaign captured the imagination of many in building a fairer country, and now the same people are flooding to the SNP, totally at ends with each other. I wouldn't disagree with that assessment. But again the SNP is the only vehicle available to take us to Independence. After that its up to us all to move whichever direction we want. All the main parties are middle-ish, thats been the way ever since Blair lurched to the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 But again the SNP is the only vehicle available to take us to Independence. And therein lies my central issue. I've always been honest on here that I would have voted No if I felt the British road to socialism was still open. And I always maintained that I was only voting Yes because I believed that the SNP could be defeated in an Indy Scotland following the left wing narrative of the Yes campaign. Now we have people flooding to the SNP, actually believing that they are the vehicle, not only to independence, but equality... When the truth is they're off their nuts. It is historically provable that the SNP model for independence (and devolution) will result in Scotland being even more unequal than Britain is today, so for me it's now essential that the SNP membership use their influence to move their party from their suicidal economic plans before the independence question is asked again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The Daily Mash has got it spot on. http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/new-scottish-labour-leader-also-made-tory-leader-2014121593812 New Scottish Labour leader also made Tory leader 15-12-14 THE newly elected leader of Scottish Labour has also been named as leader of the Scottish Conservatives. Tory chairman Grant Shapps, who appointed Jim Murphy, said that both jobs can easily be done by one man to save everyone money: Weve only got two or three Tory MPs up there, as far as I can recall, and theyre in until May at best so its not worth having our own man. Itll be no trouble for Jim to pop across party lines and make sure theyre not getting into any trouble. If anything itll give him something to do. Murphy said: Its not that I mind doing it but they could have asked first. I suppose one more MP to feed, house and make sure they do their dirty business nowhere near the newspapers isnt going to make much difference. At least this ones pedigree. Some of mine bite. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The Daily Mash has got it spot on. http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/new-scottish-labour-leader-also-made-tory-leader-2014121593812 New Scottish Labour leader also made Tory leader 15-12-14 THE newly elected leader of Scottish Labour has also been named as leader of the Scottish Conservatives. Tory chairman Grant Shapps, who appointed Jim Murphy, said that both jobs can easily be done by one man to save everyone money: Weve only got two or three Tory MPs up there, as far as I can recall, and theyre in until May at best so its not worth having our own man. Itll be no trouble for Jim to pop across party lines and make sure theyre not getting into any trouble. If anything itll give him something to do. Murphy said: Its not that I mind doing it but they could have asked first. I suppose one more MP to feed, house and make sure they do their dirty business nowhere near the newspapers isnt going to make much difference. At least this ones pedigree. Some of mine bite. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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