Research Sector

[EvilScotsman]

Well, if they are daft enough to believe what a bunch of Liberals tell them then they are clearly far "too stupid" to have an independent country. Maybe they should ask Germany to look after their affairs for them?

That includes me, by the way

[thorbotnic]

Ah, I get you. Hadn't understood what you meant until that last paragraph there.

I can't find any information about a restriction on the number of EU students - only a quota for how many Scottish/non-UK EU students(i.e. non-fee payers) each university is allowed to accept each year. The most recent numbers I've managed to find (in what was, admittedly, a cursory search - I have to pretend to work sometimes) was a ratio of 1:7ish for non-Uk students to Scottish (domiciled) students i.e. 28k Scottish students accepted to 4k EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24226624

I make it 1:16 in the UK overall, according to the HESA stats here (https://www.hesa.ac.uk/stats). It's not a perfect comparison, obviously, but it certainly doesn't suggest to me there's a cap or limit on the number of non-fee paying EU students specifically.

It is of course possible that you simply meant a cap on the total number of places funded by the SG (or that I'm comparing apples and oranges with those figures). I'm happy to be corrected either way .

2011 was the high water mark for EU students in Scotland. You can see in this article (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/jan/13/european-student-numbers-soar-scotland) that EU student numbers in Scotland went up 17% in 2009-2010. I don't have figures to hand but I can assure you that EU enrolments in Scotland are much lower as of 2013-14.

The SFC provides funding for a set number of places for Scottish & EU students each year. While it is impossible to actively discriminate against EU applicants, in practice the criteria are now set so high very few are admitted. As an example from my personal experience - there is a type of HND-esque qualification in France called a DUT. It used to allow French students direct entry to 3rd-year study at various Scottish universities - in 2011, about 45 students were admitted through the organisation I work with. This year - zero. The only difference was that the entry requirements were made impossibly tough.

[Orraloon]

That includes me, by the way

My apologies to dafties everywhere.

I hope you have learnt your lesson. A lot of older Scottish folk learnt their lesson in 1979 when they told us "Vote NO and we will give you something better". I just hope that the People of Scotland are not daft enough to believe that lie again.

[thorbotnic]

You lot jist don't get it do you? The People of Scotland are fed up subsidising you lot doon there, we're jist no gonnae dae it ony mair. Whether we can afford to give RUK students free education (and we probably could) is besides the point. We have subsidised you for long enough. It's time you stood an your own two feet. If you continue to vote in governments that insist on charging students £9K a year for their education then hell mend you. Take responsibility for your actions.

Haddaway and shite. We're talking about EU law here.

[EvilScotsman]

2011 was the high water mark for EU students in Scotland. You can see in this article (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/jan/13/european-student-numbers-soar-scotland) that EU student numbers in Scotland went up 17% in 2009-2010. I don't have figures to hand but I can assure you that EU enrolments in Scotland are much lower as of 2013-14.

The SFC provides funding for a set number of places for Scottish & EU students each year. While it is impossible to actively discriminate against EU applicants, in practice the criteria are now set so high very few are admitted. As an example from my personal experience - there is a type of HND-esque qualification in France called a DUT. It used to allow French students direct entry to 3rd-year study at various Scottish universities - in 2011, about 45 students were admitted through the organisation I work with. This year - zero. The only difference was that the entry requirements were made impossibly tough.

It would in practice be a lot more difficult to 'discriminate' against rUK students though, would it not, given the relative similarity in education systems and qualifications?

As an example, the Law degree at Glasgow (http://www.gla.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/law/) currently has standard requirements of AAA at A-Level or AAAAA at Higher, because A-Levels are higher in the UCAS points system (worth about a third more as I recall). Surely Glasgow wouldn't be able to suddenly say that you need 5 A's at A Level to get in, while admitting students with 5 A's at Higher? Ignoring the practical issue of hardly anyone (if at all) doing 5 A-Levels.

[thorbotnic]

It would in practice be a lot more difficult to 'discriminate' against rUK students though, would it not, given the relative similarity in education systems and qualifications?

As an example, the Law degree at Glasgow (http://www.gla.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/law/) currently has standard requirements of AAA at A-Level or AAAAA at Higher, because A-Levels are higher in the UCAS points system (worth about a third more as I recall). Surely Glasgow wouldn't be able to suddenly say that you need 5 A's at A Level to get in, while admitting students with 5 A's at Higher? Ignoring the practical issue of hardly anyone (if at all) doing 5 A-Levels.

I don't think so at all - HE institutions set their own entry requirements. It's already the case that rUK students regularly have lower requirements than Scottish / EU applicants - i.e. discrimination occurring. The example you give gives lower requirements for rUK (360 UCAS points) than Scotland (400 UCAS points). There are also a range of ways for institutions to discriminate between two applicants with the same UCAS tariff.

[EvilScotsman]

I don't think so at all - HE institutions set their own entry requirements. It's already the case that rUK students regularly have lower requirements than Scottish / EU applicants - i.e. discrimination occurring. The example you give gives lower requirements for rUK (360 UCAS points) than Scotland (400 UCAS points). There are also a range of ways for institutions to discriminate between two applicants with the same UCAS tariff.

Fair enough. Fortunately I don't have anything to do with admissions - I only deal with the little buggers once they get here.

Out of interest, what are the "range of ways"?

[thorbotnic]

Fair enough. Fortunately I don't have anything to do with admissions - I only deal with the little buggers once they get here.

Out of interest, what are the "range of ways"?

Personal statements, extra-curricular activities, interviews (for some courses), referring back to GCSE / Standard grades...

[biffer]

Personal statements, extra-curricular activities, interviews (for some courses), referring back to GCSE / Standard grades...

They can also use some of them to waive (or reduce) the UCAS requirements, although that's more common with mature students.

[thorbotnic]

I've thought of another aspect to be taken into account here: even if Scotland is able to implement a policy of continuing to charge English students post independence, those English students will not be able to get loans from Student Finance England to cover their tuition fees. This will effectively exclude the vast majority of them from considering study at Scottish universities.

[Orraloon]

I've thought of another aspect to be taken into account here: even if Scotland is able to implement a policy of continuing to charge English students post independence, those English students will not be able to get loans from Student Finance England to cover their tuition fees. This will effectively exclude the vast majority of them from considering study at Scottish universities.

Why not?

[Redz]

Why not?

From the Gov.uk website in relation to SFE and where the Uni must be - That could change though I'm sure.

This must be in the UK and one of the following:

• a first degree, eg BA, BSc or BEd
• a Foundation Degree
• a Certificate of Higher Education
• a Diploma of Higher Education (DipHE)
• a Higher National Certificate (HNC)
• a Higher National Diploma (HND)
• a Postgraduate Certificate of Education (PGCE)
• Initial Teacher Training

[thorbotnic]

Why not?

As Redz says, SFE funding is only available for courses in the UK.

[Red Label]

I noticed this on Twitter today. Seems relevant info for the OP.

http://t.co/Cb63yatwU9

[Toepoke]

Heard Ian Murray MP on the radio this morning saying Edinburgh Uni receives more UK Gov academic research funding than all of Wales!

Edited September 17, 2014 by Toepoke

[Wine bibber]

Again lets look at what is actually staring us in the face.No on is going to argue that Scottish research institutions receive more funding etc etc They do.

The question is why ?.The answer is because it is more profitable because of the continuing results that talented individuals (from all over the world) based in Scottish universities produce for both advancement and patent. .In business if you have an area of great expertise combined with income generation and the potential of vast profits you invest more of your income for the particular cash cow.In short you can get more back for your money.Switzerland generates a substantial amount of income form this area for her economy

Scotland has the ability to divert the initial shortfall form any number of government led priorities.For example Scotland's share of the day expenses of the House of Lords is 7 million p.a .Just so these leaches can turn up and enjoy a drink,that no doubt is also free.We can save around 200 million p.a. diverting income from the BBC licence etc.

This is just another non story.No one is asking Scotland to find an impossible amount of money here .it will continue because it will be even more profitable and the desire to make it so will happen.Glasgow University has just announced this

hemistryResearchers at Glasgow University have claimed a breakthrough in producing hydrogen fuel from water. They said their process is fast, clean and cheap. It can store energy from the sun and wind. The researchers said their process is thirty times faster than the current method

No story lets move on to another thread troops