Potential Clarke Replacements

[Diamond Scot]

34 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Good point regarding the players that are dropped. You're right, when a player is replaced, it tends to be permanent. Barring injury crises. But even then Clarke often brings in new faces to try out.

O'Donnell clung on for a long time, but his time is up. Gallagher did well for us, but once he was dropped, that was pretty much the end. McBurnie, Fleck, Palmer, C.Paterson, Burke, Russell were all part of various Clarke squads, but they are all basically forgotten men.

The one exception I can think of is Ryan Fraser. He is a special case, where it's not really Clarke dropping him, it's his own poor decisions or injury that is costing him a place. 

And I suspect Frasers time is now gone aswell.

Clarke has just done really well with timing things. Not calling up the latest youngster showing signs of greatness straight away but doing so when its clear that they are good enough / getting enough game time to stay in the squad. Hickey, Patterson, Gilmour, Ferguson all spring to mind.

It means guys like Odonnell who lets be honest, did a good turn for us but limited in pure ability were kept in the squad, kept the confidence of the manager and thus rewarded that faith until the young guy was ready. I think that even Odonnell respected and understood that approach. Whereas previous managers would have dropped him for one squad, then called him up for the next etc. That just screams "i dont actually have faith in you".

It also means every player knows the systems, the systems within systems etc. Some people think a football system is just 442. Whereas in reality most training ground work is based on scenarios. Where should you be / move in loads of different situations. Thats hard to learn and become instinct in 2 days prior to a game.

[Tartan blood]

52 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

And I suspect Frasers time is now gone aswell.

Clarke has just done really well with timing things. Not calling up the latest youngster showing signs of greatness straight away but doing so when its clear that they are good enough / getting enough game time to stay in the squad. Hickey, Patterson, Gilmour, Ferguson all spring to mind.

It means guys like Odonnell who lets be honest, did a good turn for us but limited in pure ability were kept in the squad, kept the confidence of the manager and thus rewarded that faith until the young guy was ready. I think that even Odonnell respected and understood that approach. Whereas previous managers would have dropped him for one squad, then called him up for the next etc. That just screams "i dont actually have faith in you".

It also means every player knows the systems, the systems within systems etc. Some people think a football system is just 442. Whereas in reality most training ground work is based on scenarios. Where should you be / move in loads of different situations. Thats hard to learn and become instinct in 2 days prior to a game.

Never say never with Fraser. If he gets a move to another EPL team and gets a run of games, he'll be back in. Winger is the one position we don't have a lot of quality options in. Until Doak is ready, of course.

Turnbull, too. Obviously he's had a hard time at Celtic this season, but he'll force his way back into the Scotland reckoning at some point.

Most likely why Jacob Brown keeps getting picked. If he was called up, dropped, then called up again, then he'd know he is just a stop gap until something better comes along. Clarke definitely has the psychology down.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Tartan blood

[mccaughey85]

5 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

And I suspect Frasers time is now gone aswell.

Clarke has just done really well with timing things. Not calling up the latest youngster showing signs of greatness straight away but doing so when its clear that they are good enough / getting enough game time to stay in the squad. Hickey, Patterson, Gilmour, Ferguson all spring to mind.

It means guys like Odonnell who lets be honest, did a good turn for us but limited in pure ability were kept in the squad, kept the confidence of the manager and thus rewarded that faith until the young guy was ready. I think that even Odonnell respected and understood that approach. Whereas previous managers would have dropped him for one squad, then called him up for the next etc. That just screams "i dont actually have faith in you".

It also means every player knows the systems, the systems within systems etc. Some people think a football system is just 442. Whereas in reality most training ground work is based on scenarios. Where should you be / move in loads of different situations. Thats hard to learn and become instinct in 2 days prior to a game.

Frasers only 29, his time is far from gone. He just needs to get himself to a new club and start playing again. More a question of wether he bothers his arse turning up for scotland which has always been a problem with fraser.

[Diamond Scot]

3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Frasers only 29, his time is far from gone. He just needs to get himself to a new club and start playing again. More a question of wether he bothers his arse turning up for scotland which has always been a problem with fraser.

I like Fraser. I think he brings something to either of the 2 number 10 roles we play however Mcginn, Christie and Ferguson are all younger and currently in the squad. They wont be going anywhere so there is probably 2 positions available. Currently held by Brown and Turnbull. Neither I believe will be there long term however the way Clarke has operated Fraser would need to 1st get a move, then play some consistently good football to even be considererd again. 

That wont be in the June call up and unlikely to happen by Oct barring injuries. Clarke isnt going to drop somebody he has consistently called up for somebody who refused a call up and by Clarkes own words needs to demonstrate his commitment to the team. So you are looking at 2024 by the time Fraser might be back in the picture and I believe the likes of Doak will be banging the door by then.

Fraser maybe isnt done but there is a long way back with a closing window for him.

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I like Fraser. I think he brings something to either of the 2 number 10 roles we play however Mcginn, Christie and Ferguson are all younger and currently in the squad. They wont be going anywhere so there is probably 2 positions available. Currently held by Brown and Turnbull. Neither I believe will be there long term however the way Clarke has operated Fraser would need to 1st get a move, then play some consistently good football to even be considererd again. 

That wont be in the June call up and unlikely to happen by Oct barring injuries. Clarke isnt going to drop somebody he has consistently called up for somebody who refused a call up and by Clarkes own words needs to demonstrate his commitment to the team. So you are looking at 2024 by the time Fraser might be back in the picture and I believe the likes of Doak will be banging the door by then.

Fraser maybe isnt done but there is a long way back with a closing window for him.

If he finds a new club in summer which i think he will then the october games would be a realistic chance for him to play again. 

He offers something different from our other players and has elite level pace which is handy in international football. I think we havent seen the best from ryan fraser in a scotland shirt and it would disappointing for both the fans and ryan if he was to just fade out at the age of 29 when potentially he could have another 3 or 4 years playing international football. 

The key is getting him a new club in the summer and getting him playing again. If that happens then he should be straight back in imo. Also the lure of a major tournament should be enough for him to sort out a new club in the summer and revive his scotland career.

  

[Tartan blood]

7 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I like Fraser. I think he brings something to either of the 2 number 10 roles we play however Mcginn, Christie and Ferguson are all younger and currently in the squad. They wont be going anywhere so there is probably 2 positions available. Currently held by Brown and Turnbull. Neither I believe will be there long term however the way Clarke has operated Fraser would need to 1st get a move, then play some consistently good football to even be considererd again. 

That wont be in the June call up and unlikely to happen by Oct barring injuries. Clarke isnt going to drop somebody he has consistently called up for somebody who refused a call up and by Clarkes own words needs to demonstrate his commitment to the team. So you are looking at 2024 by the time Fraser might be back in the picture and I believe the likes of Doak will be banging the door by then.

Fraser maybe isnt done but there is a long way back with a closing window for him.

Fraser can't even demonstrate commitment to his clubs, nevermind the national team. No idea what he did at Newcastle, but the manager that he had previously shafted at Bournemouth forgave him and gave him another shot. And he has seemingly abused that trust again. So I wouldn't be surprised if Clarke gives up on him as well.

Saying all that, he is one of very few players that is just too good to ignore when he is on it. 

Judging by the Euros squad, Clarke will always pick the best players. Gilmour and Patterson were fast-tracked in to the squad despite a lack of game time as they were clearly upgrades. I can see Clarke doing that with Doak as well. And probably bring back Fraser if he's fit.

[Bzzzz]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Judging by the Euros squad, Clarke will always pick the best players. Gilmour and Patterson were fast-tracked in to the squad despite a lack of game time as they were clearly upgrades. I can see Clarke doing that with Doak as well. And probably bring back Fraser if he's fit.

I'd have Doak in the squad now. 

[Diamond Scot]

6 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

If he finds a new club in summer which i think he will then the october games would be a realistic chance for him to play again. 

He offers something different from our other players and has elite level pace which is handy in international football. I think we havent seen the best from ryan fraser in a scotland shirt and it would disappointing for both the fans and ryan if he was to just fade out at the age of 29 when potentially he could have another 3 or 4 years playing international football. 

The key is getting him a new club in the summer and getting him playing again. If that happens then he should be straight back in imo. Also the lure of a major tournament should be enough for him to sort out a new club in the summer and revive his scotland career.

  

I agree that a fully fit, committed and performing Ryan Fraser would easily be in our squad and probably the starting 11 however Clarke has shown that he isnt one to be messed around or upset the squad dynamic for 1 player. 

Fraser had a rocky history in terms of commitment, his performances were mixed and then he had the episode last year that Clarke has spoken about. Clarke basically said that Fraser had a lot to do to demonstrate to him that he was committed and worth a place in his squad.

For that reason, I think Fraser wont be in the Oct squad. With the exception of injuries or him starting the season on absolute fire. I think if Fraser moves teams and gets some game and is playing pretty well then Clarke will look at him, consider him for a call up, not call him up but say something like, Ryan was defo in consideration for this squad, if he keeps up his form then he will certainly be making a strong push for the next squad. That would be strong management in my opinion.