James McArthur

[Bino's]

7 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

How is he playing every week for Crystal Palace? Palace won’t have a game during the international breaks will they? He won’t play again until the 15th of September. 

He's played every minute of every league game for them this season

[Texas Pete]

7 minutes ago, Bino's said:

He's played every minute of every league game for them this season

He has. 

What does that have to do with him not feeling that he can play every week for the next three months?

What would be his alternative? To come away with Scotland and ask Roy Hodgson if he can miss some league games? That would go down well with his employer wouldn’t it?

[ceudmilefailte]

53 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

How is he playing every week for Crystal Palace? Palace won’t have a game during the international breaks will they? He won’t play again until the 15th of September. 

If I remember right Liverpool rested their first team in an epl game the  week before a week of internationals last season and again the week after as it was some cup or other giving a four week gap between games for some players.

I think international withdrawals will become more and more common in the future.

[vanderark14]

13 hours ago, borojock said:

I find any accusations that these players don't care about playing for Scotland funny 

In my very humble opinion Snodgrass & McArthur have made more sacrifices and put more time and effort into the Scotland team then 95% of the fans that will be at Hampden for the games. They dont have to go away and train with the squad, fly round europe and be away from their familes for a week or so and deal with the fans slagging them off when they dont play well. The only reason they do this is because they want to play for scotland. They dont need the money, the exposure of playing international football to further their career etc  

What sacrifices are they making exactly? They are highly paid for doing a job most would give their left nut to do. Please don't use the being away from families line when it comes to footballers even more so when it comes to players who play for clubs that treat cup competitions with contempt so they can focus on a 38 match per season league campaign. Neither of those mentioned play in european competition like some of our players do, some of our players have been in European competition since early july and they will be their for the next Scotland game. 

Sondgrass and McArthur both play 38 games per season max which is nothing in comparison to others in our squad

Footballers are very very lucky to be able to do what they do and even luckier to be extremely highly paid for it. I'm not saying these lads haven't worked hard to get there but they are still in a position we would all love to be in. A small percentage make it to where they are. 

Finally, Scotland fans follow their country in large numbers almost unconditionally, the players have an obligation to these fans to give a performance and to turn up. They shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose when they want to play for us. 

13 hours ago, borojock said:

Im assuming you know the pre and post match medical treatment and injections he goes through

im also guessing you know what pain level he has during and after the game 

I'm assuming you do, please tell us what you know?

If he's in pain during and after the game and he is still playing each match, his club are not being a responsible employer. They should be doing all they can to get him back to full fitness and health. Taking a week's rest will make zero difference if he's in pain every match

12 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Yeah what makes me laugh is the sanctimonious ‘these traitors should never play for Scotland again’ pish that gets spewed. 

We quite often won’t know the whole story. 

I do agree that if someone fucks Scotland about then they shouldn’t be selected again. Or if someone feels they are too old to commit to Scotland then they should just retire from international football. Players shouldn’t get to pick and choose which Scotland games they play in but if someone asks for a break due to a health issue or maybe even a personal one then there’s nothing wrong with that in my book, even if the player still turns out for their club. 

It comes down to individual circumstances for me. 

who spews this? I've not seen anyone labelled a traitor for pulling out of a squad. I think McGeady was maybe one but that's almost understandable.

[vanderark14]

11 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

He has. 

What does that have to do with him not feeling that he can play every week for the next three months?

What would be his alternative? To come away with Scotland and ask Roy Hodgson if he can miss some league games? That would go down well with his employer wouldn’t it?

Is he mystic meg? How does he know how his body will feel in November? 

he was rested for the league cup match, which alot of palaces team were. I get that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt here but something doesn't fit for me. There's no way a player can know what his body will feel like in three months and if he is feeling pain during or after matches, he needs real rest or treatment not a week off when Scotland play

[vanderark14]

11 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

If I remember right Liverpool rested their first team in an epl game the  week before a week of internationals last season and again the week after as it was some cup or other giving a four week gap between games for some players.

I think international withdrawals will become more and more common in the future.

I agree with this to en extent, as more and more pressure is mounted on managers at bigger clubs, they won't want players risked. I think there's a growing thought that International Football is a hindrance.............especially for teams like Scotland who aren't so successful but if we were to get that feel good factor back like Wales and actually qualify, just watch these niggling injuries and time off to rest disappear with a waive of a magic wand 

[borojock]

17 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

What sacrifices are they making exactly? They are highly paid for doing a job most would give their left nut to do. Please don't use the being away from families line when it comes to footballers even more so when it comes to players who play for clubs that treat cup competitions with contempt so they can focus on a 38 match per season league campaign. Neither of those mentioned play in european competition like some of our players do, some of our players have been in European competition since early july and they will be their for the next Scotland game. 

Sondgrass and McArthur both play 38 games per season max which is nothing in comparison to others in our squad

Footballers are very very lucky to be able to do what they do and even luckier to be extremely highly paid for it. I'm not saying these lads haven't worked hard to get there but they are still in a position we would all love to be in. A small percentage make it to where they are. 

Finally, Scotland fans follow their country in large numbers almost unconditionally, the players have an obligation to these fans to give a performance and to turn up. They shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose when they want to play for us. 

I'm assuming you do, please tell us what you know?

If he's in pain during and after the game and he is still playing each match, his club are not being a responsible employer. They should be doing all they can to get him back to full fitness and health. Taking a week's rest will make zero difference if he's in pain every match

who spews this? I've not seen anyone labelled a traitor for pulling out of a squad. I think McGeady was maybe one but that's almost understandable.

It must be nice to be so self righteous - personally i dont think these players have a single obligation to any Scotland fan, especially McArthur who regularly gets slagged off by fans 

To turn the tables round do you not think us fans have an obligation to the players and the team to support them and not to jump to conclusions based solely on assumptions, guesses and hearsay 

I don't have a clue on McArthur's fitness levels, pain levels or medical treatments that he is going through to be able to play for Palace. However as i don't have all the info to make an informed decision i have decided not to jump to assumptions and wild accusations but i choose to look at the facts that he regularly turns up to play for scotland and always tries his best (sometimes its not good enough but you could say the same for pretty much any player who has played for us in the last 20 years) and decided to give the guy the benefit of doubt based on that    

[vanderark14]

3 minutes ago, borojock said:

It must be nice to be so self righteous - personally i dont think these players have a single obligation to any Scotland fan, especially McArthur who regularly gets slagged off by fans 

To turn the tables round do you not think us fans have an obligation to the players and the team to support them and not to jump to conclusions based solely on assumptions, guesses and hearsay 

I don't have a clue on McArthur's fitness levels, pain levels or medical treatments that he is going through to be able to play for Palace. However as i don't have all the info to make an informed decision i have decided not to jump to assumptions and wild accusations but i choose to look at the facts that he regularly turns up to play for scotland and always tries his best (sometimes its not good enough but you could say the same for pretty much any player who has played for us in the last 20 years) and decided to give the guy the benefit of doubt based on that    

Is this part a joke?

[borojock]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Is this part a joke?

I would strongly suggest they have a obligation to the team and the manager but the fans? 

Why would they have an obligation to the fans? What does McArthur owe to me and you

[mrniaboc]

2 hours ago, borojock said:

I would strongly suggest they have a obligation to the team and the manager but the fans? 

Why would they have an obligation to the fans? What does McArthur owe to me and you

If you want to go down that road, what does anyone really owe to anyone else?

The less nihilistic side of me feels that the whole idea of (international) football is built around a common goal and passion for our team. Ideally the players should feel an obligation to the team, their manager and coaching staff, and the fans, and in turn we should feel that same obligation to them. Meaning when a lad who has 32 caps and four goals for his country says he doesn't want to be selected because he's trying to look after his health, we should at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt (if not our full support) until he gives us a real reason to believe he's actually just not committed to the team anymore. 

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I believe that being a supporter (and no-one knows this more than a Scotland fan) should involve being supportive.

[vanderark14]

3 hours ago, borojock said:

I would strongly suggest they have a obligation to the team and the manager but the fans? 

Why would they have an obligation to the fans? What does McArthur owe to me and you

As paying customers and supporters of the team, the players owe us their commitment and effort. I can't believe you needed an explanation for that

47 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

If you want to go down that road, what does anyone really owe to anyone else?

The less nihilistic side of me feels that the whole idea of (international) football is built around a common goal and passion for our team. Ideally the players should feel an obligation to the team, their manager and coaching staff, and the fans, and in turn we should feel that same obligation to them. Meaning when a lad who has 32 caps and four goals for his country says he doesn't want to be selected because he's trying to look after his health, we should at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt (if not our full support) until he gives us a real reason to believe he's actually just not committed to the team anymore. 

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I believe that being a supporter (and no-one knows this more than a Scotland fan) should involve being supportive.

I agree, the players should be supported but we are also entitled to question or criticise them when its warranted. In this instance Mcarthur has given his excuse/reason for not wanting to be selected, surely I am entitled to either take his word for it or question his reasons if I don't feel they add up?

[mrniaboc]

14 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

As paying customers and supporters of the team, the players owe us their commitment and effort. I can't believe you needed an explanation for that

I agree, the players should be supported but we are also entitled to question or criticise them when its warranted. In this instance Mcarthur has given his excuse/reason for not wanting to be selected, surely I am entitled to either take his word for it or question his reasons if I don't feel they add up?

Yes, of course you are. I just like to try and give people the benefit of the doubt first, but I understand that can be a little naive. I really hope he's not just not that interested in playing for Scotland, so I try to imagine that he's telling the truth.

[vanderark14]

14 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Yes, of course you are. I just like to try and give people the benefit of the doubt first, but I understand that can be a little naive. I really hope he's not just not that interested in playing for Scotland, so I try to imagine that he's telling the truth.

Fair enough

I usually give the benefit of the doubt too if the reason given is plausible. 

[Texas Pete]

9 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Is he mystic meg? How does he know how his body will feel in November? 

he was rested for the league cup match, which alot of palaces team were. I get that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt here but something doesn't fit for me. There's no way a player can know what his body will feel like in three months and if he is feeling pain during or after matches, he needs real rest or treatment not a week off when Scotland play

He knows his body. He’s probably in a lot of pain after every match and feels the rest will help him fully recover. It’s up to him what he does and if the manager accepts it then you’ll just need to live with it if he’s selected again.

I’m sure he’ll be heartbroken at your suspicion. 

[Texas Pete]

9 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

What sacrifices are they making exactly? They are highly paid for doing a job most would give their left nut to do. Please don't use the being away from families line when it comes to footballers even more so when it comes to players who play for clubs that treat cup competitions with contempt so they can focus on a 38 match per season league campaign. Neither of those mentioned play in european competition like some of our players do, some of our players have been in European competition since early july and they will be their for the next Scotland game. 

Sondgrass and McArthur both play 38 games per season max which is nothing in comparison to others in our squad

Footballers are very very lucky to be able to do what they do and even luckier to be extremely highly paid for it. I'm not saying these lads haven't worked hard to get there but they are still in a position we would all love to be in. A small percentage make it to where they are. 

Finally, Scotland fans follow their country in large numbers almost unconditionally, the players have an obligation to these fans to give a performance and to turn up. They shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose when they want to play for us. 

I'm assuming you do, please tell us what you know?

If he's in pain during and after the game and he is still playing each match, his club are not being a responsible employer. They should be doing all they can to get him back to full fitness and health. Taking a week's rest will make zero difference if he's in pain every match

who spews this? I've not seen anyone labelled a traitor for pulling out of a squad. I think McGeady was maybe one but that's almost understandable.

You seem to miss quite a lot on this forum.

I wasn’t quoting anyone verbatim but that sentiment is bandied about on here like people have an obligation to play for their country to please the general public.

I agree that the players on the pitch have in obligation to the fans, their teammates and the coaching staff to try their hardest but nobody is obligated to put any football club or team ahead of their health.

If McArthur feels he needs the break then that’s up to him. You don’t need to like it of course but at the end of the day it’s happening so you’ll just need to live with it.

 

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

You seem to miss quite a lot on this forum.

I wasn’t quoting anyone verbatim but that sentiment is bandied about on here like people have an obligation to play for their country to please the general public.

I agree that the players on the pitch have in obligation to the fans, their teammates and the coaching staff to try their hardest but nobody is obligated to put any football club or team ahead of their health.

If McArthur feels he needs the break then that’s up to him. You don’t need to like it of course but at the end of the day it’s happening so you’ll just need to live with it.

 

You’ve actually contradicted yourself here. I’ll leave you to work out where

[Texas Pete]

Just now, vanderark14 said:

You’ve actually contradicted yourself here. I’ll leave you to work out where

No I didn’t. If you don’t understand what I meant that’s your problem. 

[vanderark14]

Just now, Texas Pete said:

No I didn’t. If you don’t understand what I meant that’s your problem. 

Wow. As I’ve said before, take a break from posting now and again. I don’t mean anything personal when engaging with you.

we can leave it there, enjoy the rest of your evening. 

[Texas Pete]

3 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Wow. As I’ve said before, take a break from posting now and again. I don’t mean anything personal when engaging with you.

we can leave it there, enjoy the rest of your evening. 

Don’t you dare tell me to take a break. You must be the most sanctimonious person on here.

I really don’t care whether you take anything personally or not. You’ve got your opinions and I’ve got mine. If they are different then so be it but if you start acting like a fanny by accusing me of contradicting myself or telling me to take a break then I’m going to call you on it. 

[vanderark14]

Are you on roids or something min?

 

 I was being civilised and willing to leave it there but it’s clear you have issues understanding me.

“Don’t you dare tell me to take a break “ that’s fucking 😂😂😂😂 honestly the funniest comment I’ve seen on here in a few months.

 

 

[Texas Pete]

Just now, vanderark14 said:

Are you on roids or something min?

 

 I was being civilised and willing to leave it there but it’s clear you have issues understanding me.

“Don’t you dare tell me to take a break “ that’s fucking 😂😂😂😂 honestly the funniest comment I’ve seen on here in a few months.

 

 

Civilised?

You were being a twat by accusing me of contradicting myself when I hadn’t. 

I’m glad you found it amusing. People like you need cheering up now and again.

I just won’t bother engaging with you on here if you’re going to act like a child. 

[mrniaboc]

McArthur must be so upset reading this thread

[vanderark14]

3 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Civilised?

You were being a twat by accusing me of contradicting myself when I hadn’t. 

I’m glad you found it amusing. People like you need cheering up now and again.

I just won’t bother engaging with you on here if you’re going to act like a child. 

There was nothing any of my posts that warranted the “don’t you dare” moment you had. 

youve clearly read my post and took it the wrong way and have lashed out at Me.

[Texas Pete]

Just now, vanderark14 said:

There was nothing any of my posts that warranted the “don’t you dare” moment you had. 

youve clearly read my post and took it the wrong way and have lashed out at Me.

Lashed out? 😂😂😂

Don’t flatter yourself mate. I just don’t particularly like being told what to do by someone that doesn’t know me. 

Why don’t you just keep your unwanted advice to yourself and stick to Scotland related stuff eh?

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

Lashed out? 😂😂😂

Don’t flatter yourself mate. I just don’t particularly like being told what to do by someone that doesn’t know me. 

Why don’t you just keep your unwanted advice to yourself and stick to Scotland related stuff eh?

I didn’t tell you what to do, I made a suggestion because it’s clear you were angry. I couldn’t care less whether you took on board the suggestion

you don’t start a post with don’t you dare if you’re thinking straight and not lashing out. Incredibly I’m not the first to advise you to take a break because you took something the wrong way

if someone makes a suggestion to me I don’t turn round and say “don’t you dare tell me to.......” that’s the sign of a very aggressive person