The 55

[Armchair Bob]

If we are to move forward we need to know the nature of our defeat. A poll needs to be commissioned to find out why people voted no. We need to know how many are comfortable being British, and how many wanted indy but were scared out of it, or who were just sceptical of the yes campaign leadership. Let's face it, if a majority of the population identify as British we are probably fucked. But I don't think there is that majority there.

We need to know what events need to occur in order for the scales to fall from some peoples eyes. For my wife it was banks threatening to leave and the protection of the British army that became the justification in the end, even though she was always going to vote no anyway (she self identifies as British). When Standard Life moves to London anyway or we are enrolled in another pointless war then that is when conversions can take place.

[ShedTA]

If we are to move forward we need to know the nature of our defeat. A poll needs to be commissioned to find out why people voted no. We need to know how many are comfortable being British, and how many wanted indy but were scared out of it, or who were just sceptical of the yes campaign leadership. Let's face it, if a majority of the population identify as British we are probably fucked. But I don't think there is that majority there.

We need to know what events need to occur in order for the scales to fall from some peoples eyes. For my wife it was banks threatening to leave and the protection of the British army that became the justification in the end, even though she was always going to vote no anyway (she self identifies as British). When Standard Life moves to London anyway or we are enrolled in another pointless war then that is when conversions can take place.

Despite all that it was the over 65s that killed it. We only needed 6% more of the vote to be yes. In 10 years that might be doable.

[tam4ritchie]

In ten months it might be possible. Once the Scottish voters realise they've been duped again

[thplinth]

The pensioners, Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Fukk em all.

[thplinth]

Growing up there Aberdeen especially is giving me the deep boak.

[thplinth]

Tartanjon was right...that fukking pool.

[ShedTA]

Seriously what happens if there is a vote on Europe and the south votes to leave? Do we meekly accept it? I think Scotland is very pro Europe is it not?

[exile]

Education.

Partly factual - Where does the money for pensions come from?

Partly attitudinal - Where does information in the news come from? Which sources can be trusted?

[Armchair Bob]

Aberdeen and Edinburgh - lots of non scots in these cities. The majority I talked to in Edinburgh were going to go no which surprised me but suppose it shouldn't. They have not got a dog in the fight and the majority of them just want an easy life - not many middle class immigrants from abroad are going to vote yes to making the lives of working class scots better. These sort of folk are only going to vote yes if the UK threatens to deport them.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Armchair Bob

[wanday]

has there been an analysis on how the different nationalities in Scotland voted?

[IAteAllThePies]

The 55 is apt.

Age factors if you believe the poll.

The young will grow up angry. This anger will be passed to their kids.

Anger is a powerful ally.

[Caledonian Craig]

Watching many many news items yesterday there were interviews with a lot of young couples who said they voted no but did admit to be close to voting yes but too many uncertainties chose them to take the safe vote. I think there are a lot (a heck of a lot) like that in the no vote that can be swayed by more Westminster incompetence in the coming days, months and years. On the other hand I cannot see the 45% going anywhere else other than up such is the strength of feeling there. The base camp for independence is now there when (if we are being realistic it has never been before).

[thplinth]

Aberdeen and Edinburgh - lots of non scots in these cities. The majority I talked to in Edinburgh were going to go no which surprised me but suppose it shouldn't. They have not got a dog in the fight and the majority of them just want an easy life - not many middle class immigrants from abroad are going to vote yes to making the lives of working class scots better. These sort of folk are only going to vote yes if the UK threatens to deport them.

Most of my school days pals are aberdonians - I honestly think out of 20 I could work out that I was the only Yes. I thought maybe one other had voted Yes but today I am doubting even him. It has always been like this up there.

[exile]

has there been an analysis on how the different nationalities in Scotland voted?

Probably - the BBC showed a map showing areas with high rUK proportions

But in any case the Yes side has to be inclusive (as it is) but seen to be - the No side can always point to the built-in inclusivity of the multi-national nation state that is the UK

[exile]

There is also a Lessons to be Learned thread.

[Caledonian Craig]

Probably - the BBC showed a map showing areas with high rUK proportions

But in any case the Yes side has to be inclusive (as it is) but seen to be - the No side can always point to the built-in inclusivity of the multi-national nation state that is the UK

I did note two distinctly English students on news reports wrapped in UJ's chuffed with the result so obviously they had a vested interest or ulterior motive in voting no.

[Stokesy]

If we are to move forward we need to know the nature of our defeat. A poll needs to be commissioned to find out why people voted no. We need to know how many are comfortable being British, and how many wanted indy but were scared out of it, or who were just sceptical of the yes campaign leadership. Let's face it, if a majority of the population identify as British we are probably fucked. But I don't think there is that majority there.

Not necessarily.

My stance has always been that emotionally I wanted Scotland to remain within the UK. Rationally I wanted whatever was best in terms of healthcare, jobs, education and so on. Like Craig said there would have been a lot of people that where on the fence but decided it wasn't worth the risk. The news that Lloyds were planning to move their headquarters wouldn't have helped matters as they're a major employer in Edinburgh. Get all of the unanswered questions sorted and the general consensus may change.

I thought Salmond's one big mistake was agreeing to have the referendum this early. Another few years of planning and things may have been different.

[Armchair Bob]

I did note two distinctly English students on news reports wrapped in UJ's chuffed with the result so obviously they had a vested interest or ulterior motive in voting no.

When I went up Arthur's Seat yesterday there were three English students coming down Queens Drive carrying a No Thanks sign - I had to cross the road when I saw them as I didn't trust my self control at thy point

[Stokesy]

has there been an analysis on how the different nationalities in Scotland voted?

Both my parents are English. My dad was a definite yes. Mum hasn't made her preference known but I think she was probably no.

I think it's safe to assume that most people from other parts of the UK would have voted no. They probably think that it makes their lives easier in the long run.

[sonofoi]

Growing up there Aberdeen especially is giving me the deep boak.

Played football yesterday with an aberdonian, Aberdeen shirt wearing TA member who came into the park gloating & celebrating. He was shouted down as a judas traitor c.unt. This guy really surprised me. Has my view of him changed? Yes. I have absolutely nothing civil to say to him so best ignored.

[Armchair Bob]

Thanks for the feedback Stokesy. Don't think it could have been held much later. Suppose we could have waited till after the 2015 general election but the consensus was that the referendum would have been drowned out in the media by general election noise. (Which ironically is part of the problem - the dominance of British media in Scotland).

Edited September 20, 2014 by Armchair Bob

[ShedTA]

Watching many many news items yesterday there were interviews with a lot of young couples who said they voted no but did admit to be close to voting yes but too many uncertainties chose them to take the safe vote. I think there are a lot (a heck of a lot) like that in the no vote that can be swayed by more Westminster incompetence in the coming days, months and years. On the other hand I cannot see the 45% going anywhere else other than up such is the strength of feeling there. The base camp for independence is now there when (if we are being realistic it has never been before).

We also need better answers next time to the inevitable fear stories.

[exile]

There have been English voices vocal on both sides, and the Yes side has to not alienate any incomer

if it was down to where you are born, we'd have 3/4 million Scots based in rUK weighing in

[Jie Bie]

Agree 100% there needs to be a detailed opinion poll carried out to try and work out who voted no and why they did so. We need to learn from this. The Ashcroft data being bandied about is from a very small sample size, and can't form the basis for a proper analysis.

The Yes campaign told people that a Yes vote was a vote for social justice, equality and a future fair for all. For every Yes vote that was won by this principled stand, there seems to have been a couple of No voters who didn't like the sound of that one bit.

Instead of being my generations 1979, it's more like our 1992. As unpalatable as it sounds if the SNP want to win independence for Scotland they need to emulate our enemy - NuLabour.

We need to win over the "I'm alright Jack" brigade in much the same way Blair did. Unfortunately the London compliant media will never cosy up to the idea of independence, so I have no idea where to start with that.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Jie Bie

[Caledonian Craig]

One thing that surprises me is that no push was made for a revote in say five years should the vote be as close as it was. I meann 55-45 would produce a hung parliament and re-election so SNP should have pushed for such a clause to be included. Especially, now if you consider 12.5% never voted.