Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) There seems to be a large portion of fans here harping on about Steve Fletcher and why Rhodes and Griffiths haven't had a chance but our goalscoring rate is not what cost us in this campaign. Ireland reached the play-offs scoring fewer goals than us but the key is their defence has been more secure. We led against Poland home and away but our defence couldn't shut things out. Against Germany we scored in both games and were to let points slip again down to the defence. We couldn't even shut out Georgia in Tblisi. We scored in nine of the ten games (can't remember the last campaign we scored in so many matches in a campaign. The defence cost us with failing to clear their lines and statuesque defending. That needs addressing. Edited October 15, 2015 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You sure? If we'd scored more goals we would have qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You sure? If we'd scored more goals we would have qualified. Exactly, if Fletcher hadn't missed that sitter against Poland when we were 2-1 up, we would have won the game. I think we should try to score more goals than we concede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think everyone's aware that our defense is leaky.. the problem is we don't have a lot of depth there to do anything about it. We could swap keeper, I think Gordon's a better organiser than Marshall, but there's not a lot in it. Right back is nailed on, there's very few options to improve on Hutton. Liam Palmer's the one with the best CV, but he's worse than Hutton imo. Center Backs, we could slot Greer in beside Hanley, but he's 34 remember, so not a long term fix. Left back we seem to want to swap out a premier league regular in Whittaker for an attack minded championship player. Is that going to tighten things up? We can shuffle the defensive mids a bit. But none of them are great defensive shields really. Fletcher's over, McArthur is more box to box these days, Morrison's forte isnt breaking things up.. Mulgrew is maybe the closest but he's not all that mobile. There's a few young options which we might try in coming friendlies, but they're all unknown at this level. So we're quite limited in what we can do. We can only use the players we've got. Regarding up front. We missed so many sitters in this campaign. Sooo many. You can compare our goals conceeded and goals scored to other teams, but we have different strengths. The Irish players suit an all out defense and counter system, ours don't. We have better forwards then we're using and especially forwards who would work better together than the duo of Fletcher and Naismith. Just a reminder.. Gibraltar games aside, Naismith and Fletcher scored 1 goal each all campaign. You really think that's acceptable and the best we can do given our options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannannan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Naismith's "clearance" against Poland was the worst of the lot.I'm sure he'll still be having nightmares about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Exactly, if Fletcher hadn't missed that sitter against Poland when we were 2-1 up, we would have won the game. I think we should try to score more goals than we concede. Just to clarify..... 1 extra goal per game and we'd have got 9 extra points, enough to top the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Just to clarify..... 1 extra goal per game and we'd have got 9 extra points, enough to top the group. HHmmmm .... that's an interesting statistic. I hope you didn't just make it up. Canae really be bothered checking so I'll take your word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think everyone's aware that our defense is leaky.. the problem is we don't have a lot of depth there to do anything about it. We could swap keeper, I think Gordon's a better organiser than Marshall, but there's not a lot in it. Right back is nailed on, there's very few options to improve on Hutton. Liam Palmer's the one with the best CV, but he's worse than Hutton imo. Center Backs, we could slot Greer in beside Hanley, but he's 34 remember, so not a long term fix. Left back we seem to want to swap out a premier league regular in Whittaker for an attack minded championship player. Is that going to tighten things up? We can shuffle the defensive mids a bit. But none of them are great defensive shields really. Fletcher's over, McArthur is more box to box these days, Morrison's forte isnt breaking things up.. Mulgrew is maybe the closest but he's not all that mobile. There's a few young options which we might try in coming friendlies, but they're all unknown at this level. So we're quite limited in what we can do. We can only use the players we've got. Regarding up front. We missed so many sitters in this campaign. Sooo many. You can compare our goals conceeded and goals scored to other teams, but we have different strengths. The Irish players suit an all out defense and counter system, ours don't. We have better forwards then we're using and especially forwards who would work better together than the duo of Fletcher and Naismith. Just a reminder.. Gibraltar games aside, Naismith and Fletcher scored 1 goal each all campaign. You really think that's acceptable and the best we can do given our options? We should be playing players who are doing a job for us and Greer is not a lucky mascot as some laughingly claim. It can be no coincidence that when he has played we have conceded far fewer goals. That is an option definitely worth looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 We should be playing players who are doing a job for us and Greer is not a lucky mascot as some laughingly claim. It can be no coincidence that when he has played we have conceded far fewer goals. That is an option definitely worth looking at. I think you're fighting a straw man. No one's saying the defense is fine, forget the defense. You seem to be saying forget the attack tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Just to clarify..... 1 extra goal per game and we'd have got 9 extra points, enough to top the group. One fewer goal conceded in our games and we would have picked up 11 extra points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 One fewer goal conceded in our games and we would have picked up 11 extra points. No. This is a lie. 1 extra point in Dortmund. 2 extra points in Warsaw. 2 extra points in Dublin. 1 extra point in T'bilisi. 1 extra point against Germany. 2 extra points against Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think you're fighting a straw man. No one's saying the defense is fine, forget the defense. You seem to be saying forget the attack tho. So what cost us more? Pundits can spot the leaky defence though we concentrate (on here) on attack. We leaked goals and late goals at that in games V Poland when the attack had put us in a winning position and similarly V Germany. When the attack really misfired (and that can be put down to no Plan B V Georgia) the defence still got shown up and conceded when a stronger defence would have at least given us a shut-out and a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 No. This is a lie. 1 extra point in Dortmund. 2 extra points in Warsaw. 2 extra points in Dublin. 1 extra point in T'bilisi. 1 extra point against Germany. 2 extra points against Poland. My mistake I transformed Georgia away into a win forgetting our leaky defence couldn't even shut out Georgia and Gibraltar come to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 its the leaky defence the occasional poor keeping the lack of finishing the lack of discipline in midfield its the whole park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 its the leaky defence the occasional poor keeping the lack of finishing the lack of discipline in midfield its the whole park No that is not strictly true. Ireland are in the play-offs scoring less goals than us - the key is they have conceded fewer goals than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 No. This is a lie. 1 extra point in Dortmund. 2 extra points in Warsaw. 2 extra points in Dublin. 1 extra point in T'bilisi. 1 extra point against Germany. 2 extra points against Poland. Wow, I have often thought that scoring goals is more important than not conceding them. You have just proved that they are equally important. Who'd have thunk it? I will stick to my philosophy that we should try to score more than we concede. But I can see how some folk might prefer to concede less than we score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 So what cost us more? Pundits can spot the leaky defence though we concentrate (on here) on attack. We leaked goals and late goals at that in games V Poland when the attack had put us in a winning position and similarly V Germany. When the attack really misfired (and that can be put down to no Plan B V Georgia) the defence still got shown up and conceded when a stronger defence would have at least given us a shut-out and a point. Feeling a bit like you didnt read my first post at all, and i cba to retype it all is different words. "what cost us more?" is not a helpful question. "what can we do to improve?" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Nine out of ten games we scored in (all four games against automatic qualifiers). Only three out of ten games did we keep a clean sheet in and two of those matches were against the might of Georgia and Gibraltar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtag Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Exactly, if Fletcher hadn't missed that sitter against Poland when we were 2-1 up, we would have won the game. I think we should try to score more goals than we concede. You must be on the wind up. We shouldn't be needing to score 3 goals to win games against top teams. To Score 2 goals twice against Poland should have been enough to take at least 4 points. To Score 3 goals over 2 games v Germany we should have taken something. The Defence needs fixing first before we start the next qualifiers. Edited October 15, 2015 by Jagtag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Wow, I have often thought that scoring goals is more important than not conceding them. You have just proved that they are equally important. Who'd have thunk it? I will stick to my philosophy that we should try to score more than we concede. But I can see how some folk might prefer to concede less than we score. You are a visionary. Some people also claim that goals are entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Spot on JagTag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 So we all agree that there is room for improvement at both ends of the park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 There seems to be a large portion of fans here harping on about Steve Fletcher and why Rhodes and Griffiths haven't had a chance but our goalscoring rate is not what cost us in this campaign. Ireland reached the play-offs scoring fewer goals than us but the key is their defence has been more secure. We led against Poland home and away but our defence couldn't shut things out. Against Germany we scored in both games and were to let points slip again down to the defence. We couldn't even shut out Georgia in Tblisi. We scored in nine of the ten games (can't remember the last campaign we scored in so many matches in a campaign. The defence cost us with failing to clear their lines and statuesque defending. That needs addressing. Silly to say it is one or tother. It is both, and had we let in the same amount of goals, but scored more, we would have probably qualified or got a play off position. IMO, the personnel werent there to make the defence better, bar Wallace perhaps (another argument), but the potential to score more goals than we did was sat on the bench, and not used [enough]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 So we all agree that there is room for improvement at both ends of the park And in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDange Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 We conceded 12 goals in 10 games in this campaign. Defence is an issue that needs addressing on these figures alone! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_qualifying#Group_D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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