SNP leadership election

[Ally Bongo]

23 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Think that was unwise from him. He'd have been better keeping his thoughts to himself. All these endorsements for HY may well prove counterproductive. I can only speak about the branch I know and I think quite a few members feel disconnected with the present SNP leadership 

John Swinney now too - did he not say he was going to remain neutral as well ?

All that's left is for Sturgeon to back Humza now

Panic ?

 

[aaid]

9 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

John Swinney now too - did he not say he was going to remain neutral as well ?

All that's left is for Sturgeon to back Humza now

Panic ?

 

The best Finance Secretary ever. 

[Ally Bongo]

35 minutes ago, aaid said:

The best Finance Secretary ever. 

Can you not see what is happening within the SNP now ?

As Tdyer said - it would be different if Yousaf was streets ahead of the other two in potential leaders and ability to grow support for Independence

James Kelly has repeatedly shown what the polls think but yet there is no pause from the SNP cabal in trying to get their man in - when most likely it will result in many of them losing their seats at the next elections

[Ally Bongo]

The day before the vote BBC Scotland Sunday Show has Humza Yousaf on

No Forbes

No Regan

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The day before the vote BBC Scotland Sunday Show has Humza Yousaf on

No Forbes

No Regan

They’ve both already been on - maybe you missed that.  

[aaid]

35 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Can you not see what is happening within the SNP now ?

As Tdyer said - it would be different if Yousaf was streets ahead of the other two in potential leaders and ability to grow support for Independence

James Kelly has repeatedly shown what the polls think but yet there is no pause from the SNP cabal in trying to get their man in - when most likely it will result in many of them losing their seats at the next elections

Do you genuinely think that being “popular” amongst the Tories equates to being able to reach across the divide and attract Tories to vote for independence or even for the SNP.

Let me put it another way and ignoring all that’s happened in the interim.  Go back to the 2011 Scottish Tory leadership election, the candidates were Murdo Fraser and Ruth Davidson.   Who would be most appealing to you, pale, male and stale Murdo or young, kick-boxing lesbian Ruth Davidson.   I know for me it would’ve been Ruth Davidson.  Would it mean I’d vote Tory, never in a million years.  

The reason why she was attractive, despite being a Tory, is that she espoused socially progressive policies and to be fair to her, while she was in charge, she supported those.

The reason why Kate Forbes is appealing is that, *despite* her being a Nationalist, she espouses socially and also fiscally conservative policies. 

I’d also point out that James Kelly is a member of ALBA and was until recently on their NEC.

Edited March 12, 2023 by aaid

[Orraloon]

15 hours ago, aaid said:

You’re better than that.  

Of course it's a ridiculous thing to suggest, but it's not any more ridiculous that what you are suggesting about Kate Forbes and her religion.

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Of course it's a ridiculous thing to suggest, but it's not any more ridiculous that what you are suggesting about Kate Forbes and her religion.

I hope I’m wrong but you only need to look at the the impact that evangelical Christians have in the USA or closer to home in Northern Ireland.  I find it very worrying that so many people are prepared to just gloss over this. 

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

I hope I’m wrong but you only need to look at the the impact that evangelical Christians have in the USA or closer to home in Northern Ireland.  I find it very worrying that so many people are prepared to just gloss over this. 

You are just looking for something to attack her with because you have nothing else. Even if she wanted to, which she doesn't and she has said so many, many times already, she wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff because the other MSPs wouldn't let her. The leader of the SNP does not wield absolute power over the party. It is a democratic party. You know this as well as I do. 

[TDYER63]

14 minutes ago, aaid said:

I hope I’m wrong but you only need to look at the the impact that evangelical Christians have in the USA or closer to home in Northern Ireland.  I find it very worrying that so many people are prepared to just gloss over this. 

People who we’re against it said the same thing about the GRR bill and you said they were over reacting. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on it, I am just pointing out the comparison. 

[Orraloon]

Just now, TDYER63 said:

People who we’re against it said the same thing about the GRR bill and you said they were over reacting. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on it, I am just pointing out his double standards. 

👍

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

You are just looking for something to attack her with because you have nothing else. Even if she wanted to, which she doesn't and she has said so many, many times already, she wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff because the other MSPs wouldn't let her. The leader of the SNP does not wield absolute power over the party. It is a democratic party. You know this as well as I do. 

My concerns are less that she’ll look to reverse things - for the reasons you state - more that she’ll block future progression.   The two tests of that coming up will be introducing buffer zones and banning conversion therapy and in that case, this is very problematic.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23336313.kate-forbes-conversion-therapy-ban-must-respect-people-faith/

I’d say that anyone who thinks that gays and lesbians can be “converted” is holding a very extreme view.  

[Ally Bongo]

45 minutes ago, aaid said:

They’ve ALL already been on - maybe you missed that.  

FTFY

[Ally Bongo]

40 minutes ago, aaid said:

I’d also point out that James Kelly is a member of ALBA and was until recently on their NEC.

Yet he acknowledges that the "ALBA" candidate can't win

[Ally Bongo]

20 minutes ago, aaid said:

I hope I’m wrong but you only need to look at the the impact that evangelical Christians have in the USA or closer to home in Northern Ireland.  I find it very worrying that so many people are prepared to just gloss over this. 

The HUGE difference is that The Republican party and Unionists in Northern Ireland have an electorate and membership that hold the same views

You are better than that !

Unless of course you think that Forbes on her own is going to turn the SNP into Calvinists, as i alluded to before

[aaid]

1 minute ago, TDYER63 said:

People who were against it said the same thing about the GRR bill and you said they were over reacting. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on it, I am just pointing out the comparison. 

The difference there was that all the objections to the GRR bill were about things that the GRR bill didn’t change and which were already happening, see Isla Bryson.   

Here, people are saying “it’s okay, she’s said she wouldn’t change anything” but my point is that I’m not sure if I trust that especially as she doesn’t have a demonstrable track record so we just have to take her at her word.

So they’re not comparable in the slightest. 

[TDYER63]

38 minutes ago, aaid said:

Do you genuinely think that being “popular” amongst the Tories equates to being able to reach across the divide and attract Tories to vote for independence or even for the SNP.

Let me put it another way and ignoring all that’s happened in the interim.  Go back to the 2011 Scottish Tory leadership election, the candidates were Murdo Fraser and Ruth Davidson.   Who would be most appealing to you, pale, male and stale Murdo or young, kick-boxing lesbian Ruth Davidson.   I know for me it would’ve been Ruth Davidson.  Would it mean I’d vote Tory, never in a million years.  

The reason why she was attractive, despite being a Tory, is that she espoused socially progressive policies and to be fair to her, while she was in charge, she supported those.

The reason why Kate Forbes is appealing is that, *despite* her being a Nationalist, she espouses socially and also fiscally conservative policies. 

I’d also point out that James Kelly is a member of ALBA and was until recently on their NEC.

If MSPs and MP’s supported her I think she would be a steady ship and that would bring confidence to those in the political centre that Scotland can run its affairs. That is all it needs to win a number of people round. Its not all Tories that think she is the best candidate. I have lost count of the number of people who think she is, only one of them a Tory. 

 

[TDYER63]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

The difference there was that all the objections to the GRR bill were about things that the GRR bill didn’t change and which were already happening, see Isla Bryson.   

Here, people are saying “it’s okay, she’s said she wouldn’t change anything” but my point is that I’m not sure if I trust that especially as she doesn’t have a demonstrable track record so we just have to take her at her word.

So they’re not comparable in the slightest. 

That makes it even worse. You are worried about people glossing over something that currently doesn’t even exist . 
I could pick anything out of the air about Humza that he has no track record on and say I cant believe people are glossing over it. 

[TDYER63]

14 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

👍

😂 

[Och Aye]

I was leaning towards Forbes despite the religious nonsense but attacking Humzas's record in government when she is a major player in that government shows she not the sharpest. 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The HUGE difference is that The Republican party and Unionists in Northern Ireland have an electorate and membership that hold the same views

You are better than that !

Unless of course you think that Forbes on her own is going to turn the SNP into Calvinists, as i alluded to before

Let’s talk about the DUP first shall we, they weren’t always the dominant force in NI Unionism, it’s only post-GFA that they’ve come to the fore, the “establishment” Unionist party is the UUP.  Their particular sect is of course evangelical Christianity whose root is Scottish Presbyterianism.

In the USA, white evangelical Christians are not solely supporters of the Republicans.  In the South particularly, the Democratic Party has a long and unpleasant history - one thing that thplinth was right about.  

[TDYER63]

10 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

I was leaning towards Forbes despite the religious nonsense but attacking Humzas's record in government when she is a major player in that government shows she not the sharpest. 

I agree, that wasn’t her finest moment. 

But if we are talking about being sharp, I would like to see some evidence of Humza being sharp as I just cannot see through his soundbites . I feel he is style over substance. 

[Orraloon]

40 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

I’d say that anyone who thinks that gays and lesbians can be “converted” is holding a very extreme view.  

Kate Forbes didn't say that though. You are just trying to imply that she did. You are just twisting things to suit your agenda.

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Kate Forbes didn't say that though. You are just trying to imply that she did. You are just twisting things to suit your agenda.

And I didn't say that either, did I?

She does seem to think its a view that is worthy of respect though.

[Orraloon]

40 minutes ago, aaid said:

The difference there was that all the objections to the GRR bill were about things that the GRR bill didn’t change and which were already happening, see Isla Bryson.   

Here, people are saying “it’s okay, she’s said she wouldn’t change anything” but my point is that I’m not sure if I trust that especially as she doesn’t have a demonstrable track record so we just have to take her at her word.

So they’re not comparable in the slightest. 

Am I just supposed to trust Humza when he tells me that he isn't going to push for a total ban on alcohol because that is what his religion suggests? After all the SNP has already introduced at least three pieces of legislation trying to get us to reduce our alcohol intake. Thin edge of the wedge and all that. Would Humza eventually like to see a total ban on alcohol?

The point I am making is that nobody is asking questions about his religion, and quite rightly so. Why is it OK for Kate to be continually interrogated about hers?

Any particular reason why you trust Humza more than Kate?