Unpopular Opinions

[exile]

 

16 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Because some people want to control speech and what people think, if you don’t agree 100% your a bigot. In my experience it’s the activists who aren’t even trans who make all the noise and are using Trans people to further some agenda. 

What an adult does with their bodies is there choice but giving hormone blockers to childen and other forms of treatment is child abuse. 

The website I quoted says something like, these are words that hurt. Is that so bad? 

I don't know the hormone case you refer to but if something is wrong (child abuse) then you can call it out for that, not drag in a whole subset of society

Edited March 5, 2019 by exile

[ParisInAKilt]

2 minutes ago, exile said:

 

The website I quoted says something like, these are words that hurt. Is that so bad? 

I don't know the hormone case you refer to but if something is wrong (child abuse) then you can call it out for that, not drag in a whole subset of society

Of course not but it’s not just the words you use, it’s what you think, think the wrong way and it’s the equivalent of violence and hate speech. 

It’s not just a case, there is widespread treatment of children.

Not sure how I’m dragging a whole subset of society. 

 

[thplinth]

31 minutes ago, exile said:

I am curious about why people are so concerned with this issue, why not just let people be? 

So next time when we see some guy knocking fuck out some girl we should be all.. 'why not let people be'? 

[exile]

17 minutes ago, thplinth said:

So next time when we see some guy knocking fuck out some girl we should be all.. 'why not let people be'? 

Eh, no. I am referring to people who just want to be accepted as they are. 

[exile]

36 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Of course not but it’s not just the words you use, it’s what you think, think the wrong way and it’s the equivalent of violence and hate speech. 

It’s not just a case, there is widespread treatment of children.

Not sure how I’m dragging a whole subset of society. 

 

 

I may have misinterpreted you.

But I didn't understand why you brought 'child abuse'  into a general discussion about the trans community.

Edited March 5, 2019 by exile

[thplinth]

9 minutes ago, exile said:

Eh, no. I am referring to people who just want to be accepted as they are. 

That is a vacuous statement. We all want that no?

Are you saying we should accept a man beating up a woman as ok?

That is what you seem to be saying.

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, exile said:

 

I may have misinterpreted you.

But I didn't understand why you brought 'child abuse'  into a general discussion about the trans community.

Because some people within the trans community advocate transitioning childen, and calling this child abuse isn’t far off. 

To be clear, I think there’s plenty of trans people who just want a regular life and not to be discriminated against but there’s a very vocal and determinded minority of trans activists who have a different agenda centred around control and power. 

[exile]

4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

That is a vacuous statement. We all want that no?

Are you saying we should accept a man beating up a woman as ok?

That is what you seem to be saying.

Sorry, you have lost me completely. 

What has men beating up women to do with a discussion on the recognition of trans people as they are? 

[thplinth]

11 minutes ago, exile said:

Sorry, you have lost me completely. 

What has men beating up women to do with a discussion on the recognition of trans people as they are? 

Lost you completely... wow, that did not take much.

You are happy to watch a guy in lipstick knock fuck out of a woman.

Edited March 5, 2019 by thplinth

[exile]

20 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Because some people within the trans community advocate transitioning childen, and calling this child abuse isn’t far off. 

To be clear, I think there’s plenty of trans people who just want a regular life and not to be discriminated against but there’s a very vocal and determinded minority of trans activists who have a different agenda centred around control and power. 

OK. The original proposition was "Transgender people are suffering from a severe mental illness." followed by something like, there are only two genders, it's as simple as that. I guess that is the main point I am concerned with. There may be other issues with specific issue - sports, toilets, etc. but those could in principle be solved by a gender neutral policy. The issue of medical treatment is beyond my knowledge but I wouldn't regard the pursuit of that treatment, whether right or wrong, as relevant to defending the basic point about recognition of gender identity. 

To just shift the argument slightly. I presume there must be only two kinds of sexual identity (?) in the sense that you need one male thingie and one female thingy to make a baby. So I suspect that is binary whether people like it or not. (though modern medical science may say different, but we need to ask the mdeics/biologists on that front). Or I may be posting pish. But gender identity is surely more complex, and I don't really understand why people wish it were simpler.

Edited March 5, 2019 by exile

[ParisInAKilt]

2 minutes ago, exile said:

OK. The original proposition was "Transgender people are suffering from a severe mental illness." followed by something like, there are only two genders, it's as simple as that. I guess that is the main point I am concerned with. There may be other issues with specific issue - sports, toilets, etc. but those could in principle be solved by a gender neutral policy. The issue of medical treatment is beyond my knowledge but I wouldn't regard the pursuit of that treatment, whether right or wrong, as relevant to defending the basic point about recognition of gender identity. 

To just shift the argument slightly. I presume there must be only two kinds of sexual identity (?) in the sense that you need one male thingie and one female thingy to make a baby. So I suspect that is binary whether people like it or not. (though modern medical science may say different, but we need to ask the mdeics/biologists on that front). Or I may be posting pish. But gender identity is surely more complex.

The whole mental illness thing is a minefield and I wouldn’t go near it because I don’t know enough about it from a psychiatric / psychological perspective. But the children does really concern me. 

It’s a topic that won’t go away as more and more people are identifying as transgender. Again, I don’t care what adults do as long as it doesn’t overly impact everyone else. Which I think it will as time does on. 

[phart]

10 hours ago, exile said:

I am curious about why people are so concerned with this issue, why not just let people be? 

If people are so concerned about sports and toilets, what if all were simply made gender-neutral? 

I watch a load of combat situations. I'm also pretty big on fairness in sport, you might have heard me talking about doping a lot. It's already been a discussion in combat sports which by the way are very fair female sport wise. They all fight on the same card have their own weight classes and a woman's bout headlined UFC 200 exactly the same as men, although female weight classes start lower and they have no heavyweight division.

It's a big deal letting a person born male fight someone who was born female even if they are the same weight.

Not sure why toilets were brought into the discussion.

The people complaining the most are female athletes who are getting dominated by transitioning males.

[phart]

The physical differences are huge.

A decent highschool basketball team will beat the best female basketball team

Serena Williams gets torched by the top 300 men.

Then on the opposite end of the spectrum in extreme endurance races. you have Courtney Dauwalter who leaves men miles and miles and miles behind her.

 

Grip strength and punching power are so important in fighting and males dominate females in that regard.

Edited March 6, 2019 by phart

[phart]

 

Transgender MMA Fighter Fallon Fox beat her female opponent Tamika Brents so severely that she suffered a broken skull. This took place in 2014.

I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right… I still disagree with Fox fighting. Any other job or career I say have a go at it, but when it comes to a combat sport I think it just isn’t fair.

https://www.bjjee.com/articles/transgender-mma-fighter-who-broke-female-opponents-skull-are-we-getting-too-politically-correct-with-reality/

[phart]

Veriato said before the fight that it would be unfair to fight women since she transitioned from male to female several years ago.

'It's only fair to fight men. It never crossed my mind to fight a woman because I think I'm too good,' she told MMA Fighting.

'If I beat men my entire career, I can still beat them despite the hormone process. I only know that I'm good after I beat men. That's what makes me happy and hungrier to train. I don't think it's fair to fight women.'

 

https://www.mmafighting.com/2018/2/14/17011776/brazilian-promotion-books-mma-fight-between-man-transgender-woman

[exile]

1 hour ago, phart said:

I watch a load of combat situations. I'm also pretty big on fairness in sport, you might have heard me talking about doping a lot. It's already been a discussion in combat sports which by the way are very fair female sport wise. They all fight on the same card have their own weight classes and a woman's bout headlined UFC 200 exactly the same as men, although female weight classes start lower and they have no heavyweight division.

It's a big deal letting a person born male fight someone who was born female even if they are the same weight.

Not sure why toilets were brought into the discussion.

The people complaining the most are female athletes who are getting dominated by transitioning males.

OK, sounds as if you have a definite answer at least to my second question, about sport. I realise that mixing genders could end up upsetting some female tennis stars (for example) and even dismantling gender-based competitions but I thought the question worth asking.

I wonder if people would have a problem with women and men competing in an endurance sport where (as you implied earlier) women might win? 

I brought in toilets because it is one of the contentious issues about gender labelling, where making toilets gender-neutral would seem to solve the problem.

Edited March 6, 2019 by exile

[exile]

[Unpopular opinions continued] 

Maybe sports where people are allowed or encouraged to bash each other's heads in causing skull fractures should be banned. 

[phart]

4 minutes ago, exile said:

OK, sounds as if you have a definite answer at least to my second question, about sport. I wonder if you'd have a problem with women and men competing in an endurance sport where (as you implied earlier) women might win? 

I brought in toilets because it is one of the contentious issues, where making toilets gender-neutral would seem to solve the problem.

 

I generally try and have concrete empirical reasons i believe something.

They already compete gender neutral. The woman i named actually lost to a guy after racing for 67 hours straight. But they both run 33 miles longer than anyone else.

Sports are gender neutral or used to be. It's woman that wanted their own classifications.

 

[phart]

11 minutes ago, exile said:

[Unpopular opinions continued] 

Maybe sports where people are allowed or encouraged to bash each other's heads in causing skull fractures should be banned. 

 

Good way to ignore my argument though, i'll just ban it so i don't have to think how that affects my views.

Or indeed jobs with high stress that lead to depression or self harm.

Edited March 6, 2019 by phart

[phart]

Also a trained female fighter would fuck up most of the board. I'd be surprised if there was anyone on the board that could take Amanda nunez or cris cyborg.

[ParisInAKilt]

Apparently Layla Moran a Lib Dem MP said

“I see someone in their soul and as a person. I do not really care whether they have a male body”

This was during a debate about violence against women and how you define a women. And she’s an MP. 

Also Maria Miller, in 2017, as chair of the women and equalities committee, Miller produced a report on transgender rights in which she recommended that changing gender should be through a process of “self-declaration” rather than after consultation with a doctor. 

It’s concerning how far this could go.

[phart]

Souls haven't been shown to even exist. So that's just random noise.

I'm just speaking narrowly on combat sports and why i think there should be restrictions.

[PapofGlencoe]

18 hours ago, exile said:

I am curious about why people are so concerned with this issue, why not just let people be? 

If people are so concerned about sports and toilets, what if all were simply made gender-neutral? 

How would you have a women's world cup if all sports were gender neutral?  Or have any women playing professional sport?

[PapofGlencoe]

17 hours ago, exile said:

Eh, no. I am referring to people who just want to be accepted as they are. 

So do I.  Surely you can accept that and also think sport may be a category where things need to be discussed?

I think Trans people should have every right to play sports and compete.  But also think biological women should be able to compete on a level playing field.  What is the solution?

Living their normal lives they should be accepted like anyone else.  They are such a small group that you could turn a blind eye to it and pretend for their benefit.  I understand that but sporting competition is different.

[Emoji]

6 hours ago, phart said:

Also a trained female fighter would fuck up most of the board. I'd be surprised if there was anyone on the board that could take Amanda nunez or cris cyborg.

 

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