Devo Max Is Off The Table

[Pool Q]

I don't think 'they' ever did call it Devo-Max. A compliant media did, and 'they' never corrected them on it, were happy to let the impression be created they had. Result, IMO, is that some in the electorate thought we were being promised Devo-Max (something none of the WM parties want to or even can deliver), while Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (and probably even Brown) will just claim that they never actually said any such thing. Deception on a grand scale, but the media, who were in on it, are hardly going to pick them up on it.

[Lamia]

I don't think 'they' ever did call it Devo-Max. A compliant media did, and 'they' never corrected them on it, were happy to let the impression be created they had. Result, IMO, is that some in the electorate thought we were being promised Devo-Max (something none of the WM parties want to or even can deliver), while Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (and probably even Brown) will just claim that they never actually said any such thing. Deception on a grand scale, but the media, who were in on it, are hardly going to pick them up on it.

Are you sure? This guy did and I am sure he was not alone.

https://vine.co/v/OZbFJePvrh5

Anyway Brown said near federalism and Home Rule and no one corrected him. He was the one put forward with the claim of speaking for all 3 - if he wasn't they should have come out and corrected him otherwise.

[thplinth]

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,

Fareweel our ancient glory;

Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,

Sae fam'd in martial story.

Now Sark rins over Solway sands,

An' Tweed rins to the ocean,

To mark where England's province stands-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue,

Thro' many warlike ages,

Is wrought now by a coward few,

For hireling traitor's wages.

The English stell we could disdain,

Secure in valour's station;

But English gold has been our bane-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O would, or I had seen the day

That Treason thus could sell us,

My auld grey head had lien in clay,

Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!

But pith and power, till my last hour,

I'll mak this declaration;

We're bought and sold for English gold-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

[Pool Q]

Not sure Lamia, no. Just suggesting the tactic has been to use the media to give voters the impression before the 18th that Devo-Max (undefined) was being 'promised' where in fact it was something vague and well short of that the politicians were actually waffling on about. Similar to how they have committed to a tight-timescale, with 'provided all parties can agree on what powers are to be devolved' in the small print, which they won't. Can't see the link you post to Rory Stewart, maybe he went a bit off message.

[Hertsscot]

Quite a good article on the BBc website by James Cook:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29443603

[Guest flumax]

Quite a good article on the BBc website by James Cook:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29443603

Libdem snp pact?

[AlfieMoon]

Scots borrowing to cost more

Borrowing by the Scottish government could be expected to cost one percentage point more than UK debt, according to an economic consultancy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-29469347

Although they say in the article that this 1% additional cost would likely be lower than the rate if we were independent - I can't see how that's the case. I think they're trying to re-write history and what the credit agencies have said.

Didn't S&P and Moody's predict anything ranging from 0-1% additional borrowing costs? So if anything, at worst this would be the same as that otherwise we would actually have been in a better position.

What we're seeing is Scotland being done up like a kipper. Transferring limited tax-raising powers and borrowing powers (at crap rates) whilst WM continues to hold the purse strings and collect money to spend on wars and Trident and restricts Scotland's ability to create a more competitive business environment and tax regime which would grow the Scottish economy. All while the Tories are using the whole thing as a power grab and Labour have signed their own death warrant.

[Lamia]

Scots borrowing to cost more

Borrowing by the Scottish government could be expected to cost one percentage point more than UK debt, according to an economic consultancy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-29469347

Although they say in the article that this 1% additional cost would likely be lower than the rate if we were independent - I can't see how that's the case. I think they're trying to re-write history and what the credit agencies have said.

Didn't S&P and Moody's predict anything ranging from 0-1% additional borrowing costs? So if anything, at worst this would be the same as that otherwise we would actually have been in a better position.

What we're seeing is Scotland being done up like a kipper. Transferring limited tax-raising powers and borrowing powers (at crap rates) whilst WM continues to hold the purse strings and collect money to spend on wars and Trident and restricts Scotland's ability to create a more competitive business environment and tax regime which would grow the Scottish economy. All while the Tories are using the whole thing as a power grab and Labour have signed their own death warrant.

I just saw that too and was puzzled

[Khana Lagur]

Scots borrowing to cost more

Borrowing by the Scottish government could be expected to cost one percentage point more than UK debt, according to an economic consultancy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-29469347

Although they say in the article that this 1% additional cost would likely be lower than the rate if we were independent - I can't see how that's the case. I think they're trying to re-write history and what the credit agencies have said.

Didn't S&P and Moody's predict anything ranging from 0-1% additional borrowing costs? So if anything, at worst this would be the same as that otherwise we would actually have been in a better position.

What we're seeing is Scotland being done up like a kipper. Transferring limited tax-raising powers and borrowing powers (at crap rates) whilst WM continues to hold the purse strings and collect money to spend on wars and Trident and restricts Scotland's ability to create a more competitive business environment and tax regime which would grow the Scottish economy. All while the Tories are using the whole thing as a power grab and Labour have signed their own death warrant.

It may well start off that way but markets lend according to many things (your control of your economy and its prospects, your ability to manage your budget, your natural resources, export prospects, employment rates, tax collection rates etc). This article is just focusing on the single issue of a being a new borrower. The rate might start off slightly higher but it's the Govt expediency that will ultimately determine borrowing rates. And for the Scottish Govt, it's not the borrowing rate that will really matter - more the potential return on investment.

Bear in mind, in the same way Yes people want to keep the positive going, the BBC will want to keep the 'scary' stuff coming out as well.

In saying that, the Scottish Govt really need to be on top of this borrowing powers stuff when it comes to 'Vow' negotiations. It might be they'd be better saying 'No Thanks' if all the associated criteria doesn't properly align.

[thplinth]

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,

Fareweel our ancient glory;

Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,

Sae fam'd in martial story.

Now Sark rins over Solway sands,

An' Tweed rins to the ocean,

To mark where England's province stands-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue,

Thro' many warlike ages,

Is wrought now by a coward few,

For hireling traitor's wages.

The English stell we could disdain,

Secure in valour's station;

But English gold has been our bane-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O would, or I had seen the day

That Treason thus could sell us,

My auld grey head had lien in clay,

Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!

But pith and power, till my last hour,

I'll mak this declaration;

We're bought and sold for English gold-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

With quite a bit of hindsight. One correction The name will be the last thing to go. For the precise reason that everything else has been gutted.

Second correction also with huge hindsight. The english were bought and sold for gold before the Scots.

[thplinth]

The more they eviscerate you the more they dress you up in a dress, coincidence?

Burn the kilt.

[thplinth]

Use the bonnie prince charlie jacket, poofie ballerina shoes, and tuffs and tassels as kindling.

[the_fadiator]

I'm struggling a bit with more tax powers, with any additional revenue reducing the block grant. Why bother altering taxation policy then? To achieve, where feasible, a fairer system? No doubt a good ambition in itself, but it's all a bit micro managed by Westminster as it's likely to come forward. Generating addditional tax revenues reduces public spending which is not necessariy an agreed policy goal, is it? All pretty ideological and we know which party wants low public spending...

[Lamia]

It's ok folks Nick is going to sort it out.

"Within hours of the historic Scotland vote, when we were meant to be cracking on with the plan for further devolution - a plan that this party will not see hijacked, or diluted, or delayed - they were at it again," he said.

"The Tories trying to impose an entirely transparently self-serving system of Tory votes for English laws on the House of Commons, in order to give more say to their MPs.

"Labour ignoring the problem altogether in order to give more say to their MPs.

"Well they can both forget it. Whatever reforms we do will be fair and right by the British people, and that will be guaranteed by our MPs."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29538684