Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said: Doesn't help when alleged fans like yourself openly admit not attending games though does it? There is no reason why clubs cannot be fan owned. i'd much rather have that at Kilmarnock than the status quo. Clubs shouldn't be reliant on hand outs to stay alive. We have a situation where the majority shareholder takes a six figure sum out each season as a wage and has never invested a penny and has fallen out with major sponsors. Nobody will tell me that is better than fan ownership. I fully admit not been to a game for over a year, cant afford it full stop to go anymore and I don't think its worth the money to go, as went to nearly every home and away game every season for years and got fed up with it. Prices, way fans are treated like criminals at grounds, get told sit down standing up the back, cant swear etc. Anyway was saying Motherwell haven't met the quota of number of fans needed for fan ownership. Think it was something like 2500 needed to sign up for well ownership and its just over half of that am sure that signed up. Maybe Killie would have the number of fans needed to do it. 5 minutes ago, OLAS said: Didn't you pack in watching Motherwell for non-McGhee related reasons? There's one of your missing 1000 right there As above mate whole host of reasons and spend my money now doing every Scotland home and away game which will come to an end as well soon due to me buying my own place again. My earnings at my job wont allow me to be able to afford it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: With all due respect Geed, did you not stop going to games before McGhee or Burrows were there? The general trend at most clubs as far as attendance goes is downward. The stat posted by @Parklife we got a 3rd game v Celtic at home post split IIRC so possibly doesn't tell the full story. The home attendance is down slightly, but that's because we are pish. see my post above, i explained my reasons. But wasn't talking about me talking about other people who have said they aren't going back because of McGhee if you read my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: With all due respect Geed, did you not stop going to games before McGhee or Burrows were there? The general trend at most clubs as far as attendance goes is downward. The stat posted by @Parklife we got a 3rd game v Celtic at home post split IIRC so possibly doesn't tell the full story. The home attendance is down slightly, but that's because we are pish. The crowds are well down trust me, someone posted it on twitter need to look out link of home crowds minus away fans figure and they are down. Will try look for the link tonight and post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Completely understand your reasons for not attending, I'm going less at the moment because my wife works Saturday and the kids are too young to take every week. There are loads of reasons not to go. The point is Mark McGhee or Alan Burrows are not the reason you're not going, and unless one of them turns out to be the father of my kids, they're not the reason I'm going less either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAS Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I understand that, but moaning about fans staying away is a bit two-faced when you don't turn up yourself. I don't go to many Thistle games per season but still do my bit from afar by sponsoring players and paying monthly subscriptions etc. Would be disappointed if our core dipped below 2500, but I'm part of that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: Completely understand your reasons for not attending, I'm going less at the moment because my wife works Saturday and the kids are too young to take every week. There are loads of reasons not to go. The point is Mark McGhee or Alan Burrows are not the reason you're not going, and unless one of them turns out to be the father of my kids, they're not the reason I'm going less either. Exactly and my reasons are different I am not going as I explained above. I was saying are other fans are not going due to McGhee being there reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, OLAS said: I understand that, but moaning about fans staying away is a bit two-faced when you don't turn up yourself. I don't go to many Thistle games per season but still do my bit from afar by sponsoring players and paying monthly subscriptions etc. Would be disappointed if our core dipped below 2500, but I'm part of that problem. I am not moaning about it, just stating points being viewed by other well fans mate. I agree I don't turn up anymore I have went from a fan who from age of 13 went to every home and away bar a couple every season up until age of 30 to hardly going at all the last 5 years, my reasons are cost don't think its worth the money, totally over priced and way fans are treated by stewards up here are another big reason, they pick on fans off smaller clubs but yet when its old firm or maybe Aberdeen or Edinburgh clubs they tend to not pick on the away fans due to there being more of them. Saw well fans treated terribly, but think worst was my me and my mates went up to dingwall for an away game and my mate was turned away for being drunk, he had a few but no more than anyone else and wasn't staggering about or shouting anything at all, just a power trip from a yappy wee steward being a complete twat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Geed said: Exactly and my reasons are different I am not going as I explained above. I was saying are other fans are not going due to McGhee being there reasons. I think the difference in opinion here is that I don't think McGhee alone is a valid reason not to go, anybody citing that is making excuses in my opinion. I could list loads of reasons not to go, and not liking the managers personality would be lucky to make the top 20. Nobody has to go for a pint with him after the games, and presuming the hatred of him is based on his 1st spell and the way it ended, surely it's selective memory to not remember the fit team playing attractive attacking football or the way he managed the team through the time after Phil O'Donnells death. I think we all agree on one thing, McGhee has to go, preferably now rather than at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, Geed said: The crowds are well down trust me, someone posted it on twitter need to look out link of home crowds minus away fans figure and they are down. Will try look for the link tonight and post it. Hope you do find it mate I'd like to see that. Stuff like that appeals to me Currently off work sick...if I was in work I'd probably go to the effort of digging up some numbers myself Oh and on another note well society membership is over 2000 now and well on the way. With les Hutchinson matching any funds raised this year up to £500k its a great opportunity to write off a large portion of the debt to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) The 'well society is a different matter. I agree that we probably don't have the fan base to support anything like what Hearts are doing, and we seem to be looking to them as a model to follow. Its been stumbling along since day one and as I read someone say, they're greatest achievement is managing to suck all the initial excitement and enthusiasm out of fan ownership. Having said all that, we are stumbling towards the end goal, so they are maybe doing something half right. When the fans do own the club, we can then all bitch about them being under qualified to run the club. Edited February 27, 2017 by sbcmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 29 minutes ago, Donaldo87 said: Hope you do find it mate I'd like to see that. Stuff like that appeals to me Currently off work sick...if I was in work I'd probably go to the effort of digging up some numbers myself Oh and on another note well society membership is over 2000 now and well on the way. With les Hutchinson matching any funds raised this year up to £500k its a great opportunity to write off a large portion of the debt to him. I am pretty sure it is a guy on twitter page called inside the spfl, if I remember correctly, its a guy that compiles stats on games in Scotland. You will know more on the fan ownership thing than I do, I just don't think long term we have the number of fans willing to put in to be able to sustain it. We cant rely on Les Hutchison matching figures every year, as he wont be there forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 24 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: The 'well society is a different matter. I agree that we probably don't have the fan base to support anything like what Hearts are doing, and we seem to be looking to them as a model to follow. Its been stumbling along since day one and as I read someone say, they're greatest achievement is managing to suck all the initial excitement and enthusiasm out of fan ownership. Having said all that, we are stumbling towards the end goal, so they are maybe doing something half right. When the fans do own the club, we can then all bitch about them being under qualified to run the club. In my opinion think Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and possibly both Dundee clubs have the supports to do fan ownership in Scotland. Am pretty sure both Dundee clubs average home crowds excluding away fans are around 5,500 mark at each game. Maybe a Dundee & utd fan could clarify this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Geed said: The crowds are well down trust me, someone posted it on twitter need to look out link of home crowds minus away fans figure and they are down. Will try look for the link tonight and post it. I think i'll trust the guy that actually goes to the games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Get what you are saying but end of the day it shouldnt matter how many fans we have as if you stick to your budget then in theory you shouldnt need any money as you spend what comes in so it doesn't matter who owns it. As far as I understand it the subscriptions will basically build up a rainy day fund and a safety net. I certainly ain't putting money in so we can give Craig Samson and extra £30 a month in his wages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, Donaldo87 said: As far as I understand it the subscriptions will basically build up a rainy day fund and a safety net. I certainly ain't putting money in so we can give Craig Samson and extra £30 a month in his wages That's one of the best bits of marketing I've heard for the WS. The thought of subsidising a business living beyond its means is kind of what puts me off, and charity begins at home for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said: I think i'll trust the guy that actually goes to the games! Think I would rather trust facts!! http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/motherwell-league-crowds-down-by-six-per-cent-1-4356421 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAS Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 "We don’t have a generous benefactor." Short memory. Bet he's gutted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Geed said: Think I would rather trust facts!! http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/motherwell-league-crowds-down-by-six-per-cent-1-4356421 The picture of the empty section that Rangers were allocated really backs up the story. Crowds are definitely dwindling, excluding one off games 4000 is our core support. Away attendances are definitely down too, not just without Rangers; Hearts, Hibs, and even St Mirren all having been out the league and getting Hamilton, Ross County and Dundee instead will have an impact on these figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Bit unfair on Dundee ? I think they take reasonable numbers away compared to the likes of St. Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said: Bit unfair on Dundee ? I think they take reasonable numbers away compared to the likes of St. Mirren. St Mirren always brought a half decent support to fir park, probably not loads more than Dundee, but certainly more than ICT, Ross county, Hamilton or St Johnstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4002 attendance at Fir Park, with 619 Dundee fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geed Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 26/02/2017 at 10:51 AM, Jersey Jim said: With regards to Rugger, I went to one of the biggest secondary schools in Paisley ( which at the time was the biggest town in Scotland ), strange that we never ever had rugby at PE, only school that played rugby was Paisley Grammer which was regarded as elitist, me and all my mates always thought of Rugby as a rich kids sport. Was this representative of Scotland as a whole? ( talking late 70"s, early 80"s) Sorry Jimbob but that's nonsense. Paisley Grammar was nothing like the only school in Paisley to play rugby at that time. My school Camphill played it, as did Stanley Green, Castlehead and I'm pretty sure Merksworth too. Also at the time we went to school, Paisley Grammar was no longer a posh school. Probably the only reason John Neilston didnae play it was because the were worried you Millarston and Feegie punters would nick the baws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Again that articles talks about total attendance and compares a full season to 11 home games. For instance our game against Aberdeen being on a horrendous Friday night resulted in a big dip in numbers. 2500 less compared to a Saturday 3pm the season before. So that loss spread over 11 games must be about 5% . Anyway this has been done to death, you are factually correct that crowds are down...I just dont think its mainly because of the big bad burrows and mental mcghee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, sbcmfc said: St Mirren always brought a half decent support to fir park, probably not loads more than Dundee, but certainly more than ICT, Ross county, Hamilton or St Johnstone. I may be bias but in my experience relative to average home support I think St. Mirren have always been one of the best away supports outside of the old firm, the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen. Over 1200 at Somerset Park last Saturday for a championship relegation battle. Edited February 27, 2017 by Marky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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