Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 A stark reminder to some of our more unrealistic fans of what failure actually looks like. Finishing 4th in a group is nothing new to us, but the Dutch..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Oor Virgil was at his classic best tonight..... He makes Gordon Greer look like Beckenbauer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) It was funny. In the space of a couple of minutes he'd fecked up royally for the Czechs' second goal, then missed a complete sitter at the other end. Edited October 13, 2015 by Marky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 A stark reminder to some of our more unrealistic fans of what failure actually looks like. Finishing 4th in a group is nothing new to us, but the Dutch..... Yes but the likelihood is that (similar to the French and Germans) after this failure the Dutch will come back stronger and better in a short space of time and we will probably get drawn against them The Dutch have the infrastructure and coaching in place The conveyor belt of Dutch talent will see them through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 why could they not play like this when they were in our group? I see lord Persie came off the bench to score an og Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Some collapse from being 3rd in the World Cup last year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes but the likelihood is that (similar to the French and Germans) after this failure the Dutch will come back stronger and better in a short space of time and we will probably get drawn against them The Dutch have the infrastructure and coaching in place The conveyor belt of Dutch talent will see them through You may be right but I think they will also struggle to qualify for Russia 2018. They have a very difficult looking group given their current form and the play off structure may see them as not one of the seeds should they be in that. They have France, Sweden, Bulgaria, Belarus and Luxembourg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Lets not forget Holland is a small nation that vastly over performs with respect to population. All nations goes through cyclical periods of success and decline. Whilst they will be hurting there is no doubt the dutch will be back. Ajax still remain the bench mark for youth development.Indeed the modern success of Spain (and style of football) can be traced back to Cryuff and Van Gaal's time in Barcelona. Edited October 13, 2015 by Haggis_trap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Good time to put money on them winning Euro 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes but the likelihood is that (similar to the French and Germans) after this failure the Dutch will come back stronger and better in a short space of time and we will probably get drawn against them The Dutch have the infrastructure and coaching in place The conveyor belt of Dutch talent will see them through All the more reason for my post. Perhaps you misinterpreted it. The point is as you say they are expected to qualify, we are not, ergo their failure is considerably bigger than ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Lets not forget Holland is a small nation that vastly over performs with respect to population. All nations goes through cyclical periods of success and decline. Whilst they will be hurting there is no doubt the dutch will be back. Ajax still remain the bench mark for youth development. Indeed the modern success of Spain (and style of football) can be traced back to Cryuff and Van Gaal's time in Barcelona. If Holland are a small nation what does that make us? Their population is at least 3 times ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) ^ yip : 3x the population (16 odd million) still one of the "smaller" euro nations. they have enjoyed massive success, and remarkably consistency, over the last 40 years. if I had to send Scottish coaches over to one nation to find out what we need to do then it would still be Holland ? Edited October 13, 2015 by Haggis_trap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 ^ yip : 3x the population (16 odd million) still one of the "smaller" euro nations. they have enjoyed massive success, and remarkably consistency, over the last 40 years. if I had to send Scottish coaches over to one nation to find out what we need to do then it would still be Holland ? I suspected they were comparatively big so I just checked. They are the 12th biggest country out of 50 odd in Europe. Therefore if population is to be considered a yardstick to quality, then I'd expect them to be one of the best teams in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourname Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 They might be the 12 biggest country in Europe, but I think it is fair to say that they have been one of the best 5/6 teams in Europe on a consistent basis since 1988 at least (I didn't exist before that so can comment any further). They are big overachievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty66 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 It was funny. In the space of a couple of minutes he'd fecked up royally for the Czechs' second goal, then missed a complete sitter at the other end. Yes but he learned more in those 2 minutes than he learned in all his time with Celtic ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Sunnylaw Jag Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Of course, we shouldn't forget the impact that the country of Surinam has on their team with the players it has provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Very true they've benefitted nicely from being an ex colonial power, as have Belgium, France and Portugal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 They might be the 12 biggest country in Europe, but I think it is fair to say that they have been one of the best 5/6 teams in Europe on a consistent basis since 1988 at least (I didn't exist before that so can comment any further). They are big overachievers. Apart from a strange barren spell in the early 80s they have been a top team since the early 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Apart from a strange barren spell in the early 80s they have been a top team since the early 70s. Yip : France, Germany, Spain, Italy have all had barren spells in the last 30 years. Whilst they have never won anything since euro 1988 I would argue Holland are up there with those big nations ? Their record is certainly better than Englands ? (for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Unless I'm mistaken, Germany and Italy have never had a barren spell where they have failed to qualify for a tournament. In my memory I only recall Spain missing out on Euro 92. Think France missed out on both Euro 88 and WC 90 so I suppose that constitutes a spell. The Dutch missed out on 3 on the bounce from 82 to 86 inclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 ^ Exactly - plenty other nations of Hollands population frequently don't qualify Poland, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Ukraine, Romania, Portugal, Sweden. None of them have the long football pedigree of the Dutch ? So yes, it is a disaster for them not to qualify. But only by their own high "dutch" standards (which we should be trying to copy). Ajax / Holland still to my mind set the bench mark for youth development of young players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 ^ Exactly - plenty other nations of Hollands population frequently don't qualify Poland, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Ukraine, Romania, Portugal, Sweden. None of them have the long football pedigree of the Dutch ? So yes, it is a disaster for them not to qualify. But only by their own high "dutch" standards (which we should be trying to copy). Ajax / Holland still to my mind set the bench mark for youth development of young players That was my original point. The Dutch not qualifying was a bigger disaster than us not qualifying. As for the list of teams you mention as regularly not qualifying, I think that's a bit disingenuous. I'd put it another way and say all of them regularly DO qualify, just not always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 ^ which nation will bounce back faster ? my money is on Holland because they have youth system in place. this is nothing more than momentary blip for them - rather than a terminal 20 year decline. last 2 world cups they have been in last 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Only Germany have bucked the failure to Qualify trend since 1982 Third Place at World Cup Since 1982 3rd W.C Fail to Qualify for European Championships Poland 1982 1984 France 1986 1988 Italy 1990 1992 Sweden 1994 1996 Croatia 1998 2000 Turkey 2002 2004 Germany 2006 & 2010 Qualified for 2008 and 2012 Holland 2014 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 It just shows what a great job van Gaal did in the World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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