Scottish Bank And Businesses To Use Or Not.

[ShedTA]

Presumably the flip side of that is that the rUK taxpayer owns circa 90% of the 80% UK stake - if RBS continues to be headquartered in Scotland, are you going to pay us for our share?

you would get your share regardless if it was carved up - yes of course. So if it buys the govt share out Uk would get its share back.

[mariokempes56]

From Wings:

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

11 September, 2014 at 11:22 am

RBS STATEMENT IN RESPONSE TO PRESS SPECULATION

In response to press speculation in relation to re-domicile, The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc (“RBS”) confirms that, as set out in the risk disclosures in RBS’s Annual Report, there are a number of material uncertainties arising from the Scottish referendum vote which could have a bearing on the Bank’s credit ratings, and the fiscal, monetary, legal and regulatory landscape to which it is subject.

For this reason, RBS has undertaken contingency planning for the possible business implications of a ‘Yes’ vote.

RBS believes that this is the responsible and prudent thing to do and something that its customers, staff and shareholders would expect it to do.

As part of such contingency planning, RBS believes that it would be necessary to re-domicile the Bank’s holding company and its primary rated operating entity (The Royal Bank of Scotland plc) to England. In the event of a ‘Yes’ vote, the decision to re-domicile should have no impact on everyday banking services used by our customers throughout the British Isles.

However, RBS believes that it would be the most effective way to provide clarity to all our stakeholders and mitigate the risks previously identified in our Annual Report.

The vote on independence is a matter for the Scottish people. Scotland has been RBS’s home since 1727.

RBS intends to retain a significant level of its operations and employment in Scotland to support its customers there and the activities of the whole Bank.

http://www.rbs.com/news/2014/09/statement-in-response-to-press-speculation-on-re-domicile.html

[ShedTA]

Yeh not sure. is it not based on where the companies operations are? so a % would still come here? or can they choose? either way are the snp not talking about reducing corp tax to encourage businesses? bit daft if RBS chose to pay more tax down south than up here.

just confirmed by salmond on telly. corp tax based on scottish activities so net impact = 0. you would not believe that if you were watching the bbc though.

[biffer]

just confirmed by salmond on telly. corp tax based on scottish activities so net impact = 0. you would not believe that if you were watching the bbc though.

And the company that does the actual banking, Royal Bank of Scotland, would still be HQ'd in Edinburgh.

What we would lose out on is any tax on profits declared by the group for the activities of the subsidiaries based outside of Scotland, e.g. Ulster Bank, NatWest.

But overall impact not that great.

[Wine bibber]

Next door neighbor employed by RBS says its just nonsense and they have to plan for being a profitable organisation in all the countries they do banking with,No jobs at threat

Edited September 11, 2014 by Wine bibber

[Lamia]

No he didn't. He said that in the long term there may be a price "divergence" between Scotland and the UK due to things like tax variations, pension costs etc.

That could equally mean that prices in iScotland "could" be less than rUK.

He clearly suggested that meant increase!

Edited September 11, 2014 by Lamia

[ShedTA]

And the company that does the actual banking, Royal Bank of Scotland, would still be HQ'd in Edinburgh.

What we would lose out on is any tax on profits declared by the group for the activities of the subsidiaries based outside of Scotland, e.g. Ulster Bank, NatWest.

But overall impact not that great.

Biffer, Salmond just said on telly that the snp's calcs of future tax on profits (corp tax) revenues from industry eg RBS excluded activities outside of scotland as these are taxed where they occur. so no net impact.

Peston tweeted earlier, all the FS companies are coming out with these announcements. What drives it is the uncertainty re currency union and this is contingency. they need to say this to steady shareholder confidence - standard stuff but still distasteful timing.

however we know osborne would agree to currency union - otherwise we dont take on any debt - so it is unlikely to ever need to be implemented if we get currency union. If we dont get currency union the lack of billions of £'s of debt which snp have stated we would not take, more than makes up for any loss short term surely? gives us time to rebalance.

[biffer]

Biffer, Salmond just said on telly that the snp's calcs of future tax on profits (corp tax) revenues from industry eg RBS excluded activities outside of scotland as these are taxed where they occur. so no net impact.

Peston tweeted earlier, all the FS companies are coming out with these announcements. What drives it is the uncertainty re currency union and this is contingency. they need to say this to steady shareholder confidence - standard stuff but still distasteful timing.

however we know osborne would agree to currency union - otherwise we dont take on any debt - so it is unlikely to ever need to be implemented if we get currency union. If we dont get currency union the lack of billions of £'s of debt which snp have stated we would not take, more than makes up for any loss short term surely? gives us time to rebalance.

Yep, I thought there was a small aspect of group profits but no more obviously.

Your last point is spot on - there'll be carnage on the pound if the balance of payments no longer includes Scotland, that's what the currency markets are worried about. I wouldn't be surprised if the banks also have plans to relocate their brass plaques outside the UK.

[The Laud]

Im pulling my small wad out rbs.is it safe to put it in the santander?

[weekevie04]

My accounts are being moved from RBS today.

I'm doing it on Monday. I've not got much, but bugger them.

[mariokempes56]

My personal a/c is rbs, not a lot. But my company has a very substantial sum with same bank, now a bit of work to do as its a business account but that's going too.

[thplinth]

The chairman of Standard Life was knighted in July.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article4118970.ece

"Sir Gerry, who is knighted for “public service particularly to defence and business..."

[Wauchope Lad]

I shut my RBS accounts last year because of poor service and interest rates but if i still had them open i would be closing them today.

This is blatant election interference, if people are going to do shut down accounts they should do it anyway wither the vote is yes and the move or no and they don't move.

If they wanted to move after the vote thats up to them but they shouldn't be trying to influence the referendum before it takes place.

Mee can I ask what bank is best, iv had enough of Rbs.

[thplinth]

This is the chairman of Standard LIfe..."Thatcher’s sell-off guru Gerry Grimstone"

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/tell-sid-could-thatchers-selloff-guru-gerry-grimstone-mount-the-black-horse-bank-8668218.html

Do you think it is just slightly possible "Sir" Gerry Grimstone is using a PUBLIC Limited Company to express his deeply held PRIVATE personal political opinions?

How many customers of SL will be cancelling as a result of this personal ejaculation from "Sir" Gerrald" (Ratner)

[thplinth]

Surely this move by the newly knighted Sir Gerry Grimstone at Standard Life is an act of corporate governance on a par with that of Gerald Ratner?

For a company to to abandon its carefully guarded public perception of political neutrality (especially during an intense referendum like this one) is beyond belief.

If I was a shareholder I would be absolutely incensed at this. You have the managers of the company effectively using it as a vehicle for their own political prejudices to the detriment of the company. These are not owners doing this they are employees and they should be held to account by the shareholders.

[Nobby]

My personal a/c is rbs, not a lot. But my company has a very substantial sum with same bank, now a bit of work to do as its a business account but that's going too.

RBS has to have a lender of last resort (the BOE and the UK taxpayer in this instance) that can bail it out if it all goes pete tong just like last time. The current situation in Scotland is unclear to say the least with NO guarantee of a currency union. If I had a shedload of money in that bank and it remained headquartered in Scotland I'd whip my money out pronto. What RBS and the other banks are doing makes financial sense if they didnt there could well be a run. Now you wont agree with me on this but your Mr Salmond hasnt handled the financials bit of his campaigning very well at all and has dictated to the rUK what will happen when and if you vote yes, well we might not just agree with you or Mr Salmond. As ive always said if its independence you want happy days good luck and bon voyage but dont tell me im in a currency union with you because its best for me . I'll make my own mind up thanks just like you will next week ;-)

Edited September 12, 2014 by Nobby

[mariokempes56]

Banks have gone "pete tong" once in recent history that I am aware of due to Westminster policies / deregulation etc etc.

[phart]

This is the chairman of Standard LIfe..."Thatcher’s sell-off guru Gerry Grimstone"

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/tell-sid-could-thatchers-selloff-guru-gerry-grimstone-mount-the-black-horse-bank-8668218.html

Do you think it is just slightly possible "Sir" Gerry Grimstone is using a PUBLIC Limited Company to express his deeply held PRIVATE personal political opinions?

How many customers of SL will be cancelling as a result of this personal ejaculation from "Sir" Gerrald" (Ratner)

i posted what craig murray had to say back in feburary

Grima Grimstone is a non-executive at the MoD.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/02/tories-campaign-against-scottish-independence-shock/

[johnnie x]

Pump and Dump Royal Mail shares at 600p with a little Help from Dave and pals no doubt:

Reuters) - Standard Life Investments has reduced its stake in Royal Mail from close to 12 million shares held after it was privatised in October to around 118.480 shares in March, a spokeswoman said.

"Standard Life Investments are long term investors. However we have to respond to changing valuations and share prices and thus where appropriate reposition portfolios to achieve the best returns for our clients," the spokeswoman said on Tuesday.

[ShedTA]

RBS has to have a lender of last resort (the BOE and the UK taxpayer in this instance) that can bail it out if it all goes pete tong just like last time. The current situation in Scotland is unclear to say the least with NO guarantee of a currency union. If I had a shedload of money in that bank and it remained headquartered in Scotland I'd whip my money out pronto. What RBS and the other banks are doing makes financial sense if they didnt there could well be a run. Now you wont agree with me on this but your Mr Salmond hasnt handled the financials bit of his campaigning very well at all and has dictated to the rUK what will happen when and if you vote yes, well we might not just agree with you or Mr Salmond. As ive always said if its independence you want happy days good luck and bon voyage but dont tell me im in a currency union with you because its best for me . I'll make my own mind up thanks just like you will next week ;-)

So basically Nobby, RBS intends to keep its operations and jobs up here but if it needs a bailout again if independence happens - it will turn to the bank of england. so you happy with that?

the more i consider it it seems like a strong deal for scotland. jobs and revenue but zero risk.

[Nobby]

Banks have gone "pete tong" once in recent history that I am aware of due to Westminster policies / deregulation etc etc.

I would agree and whilst its fresh in the memory people are nervous and whatever you may think people will act with the herd when it comes to money and all the evidence so far points to a movement of capital south, not a flood granted but what will happen if you vote yes no one knows. Mr Salmonds financial policies so far consist of "it will all be wonderful nothing will change and you will still use the pound" now there will be significant changes some for the better some for the worse on both sides, personally i think that independence will initially be bad financially for both countries but will settle down after a while. I believe a figure quoted on here puts us as your biggest export market (82% was quoted) and i suspect we export quite a bit to you so its probably best we try to play as nicely as possibler but there are a shedload of uncertainities that are still unknown if the EU insists you sign up to schengen there could well be border controls, who knows ? they may insist on you joing the Euro you simply dont know for certain. That said independence should be about whether Scots want to be an independent nation not whether you'll be a couple of hundred quid a year better or worse off

[thplinth]

i posted what craig murray had to say back in feburary

Grima Grimstone is a non-executive at the MoD.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/02/tories-campaign-against-scottish-independence-shock/

Yes it is not only Sir Gerry Ratner Grimstone on the board of Standard Life who has an interesting CV.

Looking at the timing of Sir Gerry's knighthood I saw this on the wikipage for Standard Life...

Controversy

In January 2006, Standard Life were accused of smearing a policy-holder, Michael Hogan, who was not happy with the way the company was being run. An e-mail sent to Standard Life executives and advisors (which was disclosed under the Data Protection Act) revealed an attempt to discredit him.[23]

In March 2007 the company announced it would cut 1,000 jobs in an attempt to save an additional £100 million per year in costs.[24] One month later it was highlighted in the company's annual report that three of Standard Life's top executives (Sandy Crombie, Keith Skeoch and Trevor Matthews) were awarded more than £5 million in pay.[25] A Standard Life spokesman defended the awards, citing the leadership's efforts in turning round the company's fortunes.[25][dead link]

In February 2014, Standard Life announced that it may move parts of their operations outside Scotland in the event of Scottish independence, if it was necessary to do so.[26]

So Sir Gerry intervened in February and now again in September on the cusp of the referendum...

And he was knighted in July....

Hmmm probably just a coincidence eh?

Edited September 12, 2014 by thplinth

[EvilScotsman]

RBS has to have a lender of last resort (the BOE and the UK taxpayer in this instance) that can bail it out if it all goes pete tong just like last time. The current situation in Scotland is unclear to say the least with NO guarantee of a currency union. If I had a shedload of money in that bank and it remained headquartered in Scotland I'd whip my money out pronto. What RBS and the other banks are doing makes financial sense if they didnt there could well be a run. Now you wont agree with me on this but your Mr Salmond hasnt handled the financials bit of his campaigning very well at all and has dictated to the rUK what will happen when and if you vote yes, well we might not just agree with you or Mr Salmond. As ive always said if its independence you want happy days good luck and bon voyage but dont tell me im in a currency union with you because its best for me . I'll make my own mind up thanks just like you will next week ;-)

RBS only needs a LOLR due to the lack of effective regulation of banking in the UK.

Bailouts also have nothing to do with where a bank is registered, but where it does it's business - the exposure to iScotland and rUK remains the same regardless of where it's brass plaque is (assuming the same regulatory policy as now).

The rUK politicians will make the CU decision, not the electorate.

ETA - mentioning CU made me think: now thplinth is back, does that mean the end of thpinth? Are they one and the same? I never did manage to work it out in my head.

Edited September 12, 2014 by EvilScotsman

[Nobby]

So basically Nobby, RBS intends to keep its operations and jobs up here but if it needs a bailout again if independence happens - it will turn to the bank of england. so you happy with that?

the more i consider it it seems like a strong deal for scotland. jobs and revenue but zero risk.

Im happy with RBS being regulated in the main where the bulk of its business is as with most of the others that are doing the same. now I get there will be hoots of laughter at that but if there is one thing that has changed since 2008 its how banks are regulated. And an independent Scotland might regulate differently i get that, I mean Alex was all for RBS buying ABN wasnt he ;-)

[Nobby]

RBS only needs a LOLR due to the lack of effective regulation of banking in the UK.

Bailouts also have nothing to do with where a bank is registered, but where it does it's business - the exposure to iScotland and rUK remains the same regardless of where it's brass plaque is (assuming the same regulatory policy as now).

The rUK politicians will make the CU decision, not the electorate.

ETA - mentioning CU made me think: now thplinth is back, does that mean the end of thpinth? Are they one and the same? I never did manage to work it out in my head.

We get a vote in 2015. I'd wager the sensible party would put a vote on the currency union in its manifesto. we'd get one for the Euro why would a foreign country like Scotland be any different and be shooed in without asking the people ?