Scouse Eddie Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Five and half thousand people have now died in the ongoing war in Ukraine. Just think it was only a few years ago we were partying in Kiev, how times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I've been to Kyiv a few times in the past year and travelling out again on Monday. It's completely unaffected by what is going on in the east. However as for Donetsk which hosted Euro games and had a fantastic new airport built.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Its a small corner of the country that is effected, in Kyiv life just goes on (wife planning to go see her folks in summer and I have a few days there on route to Georgia, and in constant contact with my friends there for updates) as the trouble is 16 hours away from them by train (element of as long as it stays there we are ok). Nobody watches the news any more as its just doom and gloom..... some 80's Rock Star died in a car crash the other day and was somewhat welcomed (for the want of a better word) as it was something different to show their grief towards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Has Independence Square been returned to its former glory? Looked a mess the last time I saw it on the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Has Independence Square been returned to its former glory? Looked a mess the last time I saw it on the news. Its getting there.... its been cleaned up now and just the bombed out building on the corner is the only real sign of the troubles (there is a small "remembrance" shrine been assembled on the hill to the side that leads up to Hotel Ukraine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Excellent article. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/02/08/kievs-bloody-war-is-backfiring/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Excellent article. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/02/08/kievs-bloody-war-is-backfiring/ seen it a few weeks back seems to be happening more and more hence these new laws about anti war and anti mobilisation ie 5 years jail time and massive fines but the sad part is that the Hahols (Ukies) have been continuously shelling Donetsk since the ceasefire started as well as the Azov battalion engaged in a offensive against the NAF around Mariupol at the same time ... the brutal facts are Ukraine's shambolic government and it's equally shambolic military have no control over these volunteer groups mainly recruited from the neo nazi groups like pravy sektor (right sector) and armed by the military follow dimitri yarosh a thug that is wanted by Interpol way before the conflict began .... and it was these groups that sparked the civil war after the massacres they committed in both Odessa and Mariupol .... while these guys are around their will be no peace in Ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Five and half thousand people have now died in the ongoing war in Ukraine. Just think it was only a few years ago we were partying in Kiev, how times have changed. Partying ? Getting attacked by hooligans is not my idea of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Partying ? Getting attacked by hooligans is not my idea of fun. You had to know how to take them. I got lost fe Endell, etc and was offered a fight about 14 times. As soon as you said 'aye', you got a drink fe their carry-oot. Good lads IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 A march in Paris is one thing, but a former Soviet country is a totally different kettle of fish. It really wasn't a terribly good idea. The way things are going Euro 2016 may be our last chance to qualify for a tournament - if we get as far as 2016... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 A march in Paris is one thing, but a former Soviet country is a totally different kettle of fish. It really wasn't a terribly good idea. The way things are going Euro 2016 may be our last chance to qualify for a tournament - if we get as far as 2016... Nae wonder I lost you, marching wi the feathers. I was quaffing voddy oot a bottle wi my new pals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Nae wonder I lost you, marching wi the feathers. I was quaffing voddy oot a bottle wi my new pals.I certainly wasn't anywhere near the march! Spent the afternoon prior to the game in the wee bar opposite the ground (superbly it had heavily-tinted windows and no signage - there was a casino upstairs - so hardly anyone else knew it was there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse Eddie Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Partying ? Getting attacked by hooligans is not my idea of fun. I was partying in a boozer and didn't go to the square Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy North Croy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Excellent article. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/02/08/kievs-bloody-war-is-backfiring/ Wanderer won't like that......no western propaganda there, just some hard facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Wanderer won't like that......no western propaganda there, just some hard facts. Like the use of the word "some"........ Starts off interesting (yes national service is compulsory in Ukraine..... but there is ways out of it.... pay for missing the draft, be in a family with 2 or more kids, or having to "care" for somebody elderly) but they just goes into the usual Washington bashing. As for States sending weapons..... where are they and what have they sent? UK has sent a fleet of beat up old personnel carriers (which only value is of scrap) and Germany sent a truck full of old East German land mine detectors. Whereas the "miners" and "villages" in the East (as Putin called them earlier this week) have somehow been able to hold off the entire Ukrainian army for almost a year now after somehow magically being able to produce superior military technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Russian warfare breaks oot on the Tamb - it never fails to amaze me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Like the use of the word "some"........ Starts off interesting (yes national service is compulsory in Ukraine..... but there is ways out of it.... pay for missing the draft, be in a family with 2 or more kids, or having to "care" for somebody elderly) but they just goes into the usual Washington bashing. As for States sending weapons..... where are they and what have they sent? UK has sent a fleet of beat up old personnel carriers (which only value is of scrap) and Germany sent a truck full of old East German land mine detectors. Whereas the "miners" and "villages" in the East (as Putin called them earlier this week) have somehow been able to hold off the entire Ukrainian army for almost a year now after somehow magically being able to produce superior military technology. the NAF are using the equipment the Ukie army has been abandoning in high numbers hence the bulk of their armor is ancient T-64 tanks ... Russia scrapped their T-64s as the RF considered them obsolete, T-72s in NAF forces ...Ukraine had 2,000 of them of two variants T-72B1 and the T-72BM the Ukraines T-72s are easy to spot compared to the Russian T-72s in the Red Army service ... you can easily tell the difference in the tracks used .. Ukraine uses the old style 1 pin tracks compared to the more modern Red Army version using the 2 pin track ... every single piece of equipment the NAF are using has either been abandoned or been damage in Ukie service and east of Donetsk has Ukraine's biggest weapon's dump .... Ukraine was the supply centre for the former soviet union and the warsaw pact their are weapons dumps all around Ukraine especially in abandoned coal mines in eastern Ukraine ... and in Donetsk it has the biggest military repair factories in Ukraine even bigger than the one in Kharkov ... so everything the UA abandons gets repaired in Donetsk and put into action for the NAF ... oh and another thing wanderer the UA army garrison couldn't get out of Dontesk fast enough abandoning, tanks, air defense systems, trucks, Apcs, artillery most was down to poor maintenance or non existent maintenance and then their is Ukraine's illegal use of ballistic missiles on cities like Donetsk and Luhansk by their Tocha -U ballistic missile system and the use of MLRS systems on settlements and the use of white phosphorus munitions on Donetsk and Luhansk all of which are outlawed by the UN on civilian settlements and actually America has boots on the ground in Ukraine via their private Army BlackWater now called Academi they have been in Ukraine since last summer The Russian Federation did bombard Ukraine Army border positions and artillery positions in July with artillery and MLRS for shelling the border area of Rostov Oblast for 10 days (observed by international media) killing 2 Russian civvies and wounding several more in the Russian border town of Donets'k Edited February 19, 2015 by FuNsTeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) So what you are saying is there is stockpiles of equipment just sitting there and is getting repaired in factories? Who is doing the repairing and who is financing it, as surely these would have been Ukrainian Government operated factories before the war broke out? Rinat Akhmetov who owns the vast migority of Donetsk jumped ship a while back, and took as much of his empire as he could to behind the battle lines. Who is operating them? That is some quality of "miner" and "Tractor Driver" (as Putin put it a couple of days ago in Budapest) they have out there. Yes Blackwater are in Ukraine, but they go wherever there is money of offer (they have been in the Caucuses also in the recent years helping to set up a new unit in Azerbaijan..... if the money is right I doubt they would need Government approval to just show up. Edited February 19, 2015 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So what you are saying is there is stockpiles of equipment just sitting there and is getting repaired in factories? Who is doing the repairing and who is financing it, as surely these would have been Ukrainian Government operated factories before the war broke out? Rinat Akhmetov who owns the vast migority of Donetsk jumped ship a while back, and took as much of his empire as he could to behind the battle lines. Who is operating them? That is some quality of "miner" and "Tractor Driver" (as Putin put it a couple of days ago in Budapest) they have out there. Yes Blackwater are in Ukraine, but they go wherever there is money of offer (they have been in the Caucuses also in the recent years helping to set up a new unit in Azerbaijan..... if the money is right I doubt they would need Government approval to just show up. actually the US government is funding BlackWater's/Academi in Ukraine just like Blackwater was funded by the US government in Afghanistan and Iraq where is the money coming from .... oligarchs in both Russia and Ukraine and from banks and properties seized from Ukraine and then their is the fact that that part of Eastern Ukraine had/has the strongest economy in Ukraine and the fact that they are still mining for coal and even selling some of it back to Ukraine ... so in essence Ukraine has been funding the rebels plenty of videos on Youtube showing the workers repairing UA armor by cannibalising parts from vehicles they can't fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Suppose they Ross Kemp can go later and see how they are doing now that they have the Expendables in town..... can not be any more embarrassing as when he said "these are highly trained soilders" while showing two guys with guns who looked like their only training they had was a weekend at home with the Rambo Boxset and a shot of Metal Gear on the PS2. Granted there is a few bad apples in the Azov. You do know that the rebals do not actually control the who region? Donetsk Region is the size of Wales, and with land they have there and in Lugansk, you are only talking a area the size of Strathclyde...... Very few of the oligarchs are with the rebels.....Akhmetov actually shut down his steel plants last week (mainly due to his fortune plummeting) plus you had the guy who gave himself up for arrest one hour before the ceasefire. Edited February 19, 2015 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Suppose they Ross Kemp can go later and see how they are doing now that they have the Expendables in town..... can not be any more embarrassing as when he said "these are highly trained soilders" while showing two guys with guns who looked like their only training they had was a weekend at home with the Rambo Boxset and a shot of Metal Gear on the PS2. Granted there is a few bad apples in the Azov. You do know that the rebals do not actually control the who region? Donetsk Region is the size of Wales, and with land they have there and in Lugansk, you are only talking a area the size of Strathclyde...... Very few of the oligarchs are with the rebels.....Akhmetov actually shut down his steel plants last week (mainly due to his fortune plummeting) plus you had the guy who gave himself up for arrest one hour before the ceasefire. Azov and the entire volunteer battalions are scum full stop full of Right Sector scumbags and yes I do know that the rebels don't control the whole of the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts .... and actually support for the rebels is stronger in the Khrakov Oblast where scenes of the largest protests towards maidan and the illegal coup of their president and their have been numerous partisan attacks on the UA in the Kharkov region because the UA are not welcome by the majority of the residents Akhmetov's plants have shut down in Mariupol due to local partisans (growing in greater numbers in South Eastern Ukraine) blowing up the rail networks supplying his factories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Oh, Kharkov who voted in Hennadiy Kernes as Mayor (guy Pro-Russians tried to assassinate which resulted in him shifting from Pro-Russia to Pro-Ukraine and Poroshenko) and goes around saying Kharkiv will remain Ukrainian? Akhmetov closed most his plants, as like Oil, price of steel has hit rock bottom and there is a over supply in the market. Edited February 19, 2015 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh, Kharkov who voted in Hennadiy Kernes as Mayor (guy Pro-Russians tried to assassinate which resulted in him shifting from Pro-Russia to Pro-Ukraine and Poroshenko) and goes around saying Kharkiv will remain Ukrainian? Akhmetov closed most his plants, as like Oil, price of steel has hit rock bottom and there is a over supply in the market. this is the same Hennadiy Kernes that was placed under house arrest by the pro maidan government in the summer who up until he was released from house arrest supported the rebels and faced criminal charges then why would the pro Russians attempt to assassinate him ?? all the media says the assailant was unknown .... it does not make sense unless he paid the hitman himself so as to cover his tracks it wouldn't be the first or the last time it happened nope Akhmetov's plants where shut down for the reasons I gave you ie partisan attacks on the railway networks supplying his factories http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/zik-akhmetov-shuts-down-his-plants-in-yenakieve-and-makiyivka-because-of-war-379902.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 this is the same Hennadiy Kernes that was placed under house arrest by the pro maidan government in the summer who up until he was released from house arrest supported the rebels and faced criminal charges then why would the pro Russians attempt to assassinate him ?? all the media says the assailant was unknown .... it does not make sense unless he paid the hitman himself so as to cover his tracks it wouldn't be the first or the last time it happened Maybe because he was about to spill the beans? March he calls himself "prisoner of Yanukovych's system" in a interview, then in April a attempt is made on his life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Maybe because he was about to spill the beans? March he calls himself "prisoner of Yanukovych's system" in a interview, then in April a attempt is made on his life.... well considering he was still under night house arrest up until the end of July when the government dropped all charges against him .... what was the charges against him I noticed you have also ignored my points about the UA using weapons that are banned by international law on civilian settlements ie ballistic missiles, MLRS, white phosphorus munitions and you are trying to proclaim the western Ukraine as the good guys and continuous bombardments of civilian areas during the last so called ceasefire "Kernes was accused of alleged connections to death threats, kidnapping and torturing of participants of EuroMaidan in Kharkiv and was subsequently placed under night-time house arrest.[" Edited February 19, 2015 by FuNsTeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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