Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Why, out of interest? The majority follow the 'Britain's road to socialism' programme, independence would have split the trade unions removing any hope of a resurgence of the Labour movement. The splitting of the Unions was a sore point for me, but one I was willing to sacrifice in exchange for the hope of a progressive government. The far left disagreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I found the opposite to be the case. The only far left group Is can think of who argued for a No vote were the Communist Party of Great Britain. The Communist Party of Scotland, on the other hand, backed a Yes vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The majority follow the 'Britain's road to socialism' programme, independence would have split the trade unions removing any hope of a resurgence of the Labour movement. The splitting of the Unions was a sore point for me, but one I was willing to sacrifice in exchange for the hope of a progressive government. The far left disagreed. Do these folk in the "far left" think that the trade unions are on their side? Who are these "far left" groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I found the opposite to be the case. The only far left group Is can think of who argued for a No vote were the Communist Party of Great Britain. The Communist Party of Scotland, on the other hand, backed a Yes vote. I've found the Communist Party of Scotlands only purpose was as fodder to wind up members of the CPGB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Do these folk in the "far left" think that the trade unions are on their side? Who are these "far left" groups. As far as political parties go you're pretty much limited to the communists... There's a number of protest groups dotted around the place, in my experience they're a tad insane. As for the Trade Unions being on their side, no they're not that naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As far as political parties go you're pretty much limited to the communists... There's a number of protest groups dotted around the place, in my experience they're a tad insane. As for the Trade Unions being on their side, no they're not that naive. so the only far left party you know is the communist party and, in Scotland, they backed a YES vote. Doesn;t really support your view that all far left folk voted NO does it? As for where the SNP stands, I would say they are centre-left, definitely more left wing than all the other major? parties, but that isn't hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) so the only far left party you know is the communist party and, in Scotland, they backed a YES vote. Doesn;t really support your view that all far left folk voted NO does it? As for where the SNP stands, I would say they are centre-left, definitely more left wing than all the other major? parties, but that isn't hard They backed a No vote The Scottish Communist Party, who are rightly ridiculed as Nationalism goes against the majority principle of Communism... Backed a Yes. As for the bolded bit, it's no secret I disagree But what is the world without opinions. Edited January 22, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As for the bolded bit, it's no secret I disagree But what is the world without opinions. Indeed, and you have enough for us all.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 They backed a No vote The Scottish Communist Party, who are rightly ridiculed as Nationalism goes against the majority principle of Communism... Backed a Yes. As for the bolded bit, it's no secret I disagree But what is the world without opinions. quite right. I actually quite like a lot of your posts, some are bloody annoying too!!!!, as it can be very one-sided on here as far as pro/anti SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Indeed, and you have enough for us all.. Bitchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) quite right. I actually quite like a lot of your posts, some are bloody annoying too!!!!, as it can be very one-sided on here as far as pro/anti SNP A Tamber said much the same on my Facebook yesterday after I made a post attacking the SNP... So I did a wee count: Yesterday I made 4 posts attacking Labour, and one attacking the SNP. Edit: Without the part about liking my posts though Edited January 22, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 A Tamber said much the same on my Facebook yesterday after I made a post attacking the SNP... So I did a wee count: Yesterday I made 4 posts attacking Labour, and one attacking the SNP. Edit: Without the part about liking my posts though wasn't meaning you always attacked the SNP. just that it was refreshing to hear the views of someone who supports Independence while disliking the SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 wasn't meaning you always attacked the SNP. just that it was refreshing to hear the views of someone who supports Independence while disliking the SNP Ach, I don't dislike the SNP... Just their politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yesterday I made 4 posts attacking Labour, and one attacking the SNP. That's because you started counting. As soon as you start to measure something, you influence it's behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Ach, I don't dislike the SNP... Just their politics I don't like all their policies either. But I agree with enough of them to know that they are the best party for me and for Scotland as a whole. i think you are the same but you just wont admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 That's because you started counting. As soon as you start to measure something, you influence it's behaviour. I counted AFTER being accused of focusing on the SNP. I'm finding that SNP supporters are much like The Rangers supporters... I don't like all their policies either. But I agree with enough of them to know that they are the best party for me and for Scotland as a whole. i think you are the same but you just wont admit it. I can't agree, as far as the working class and poor go (the focal point of my political views), I don't see where the SNP's expedience benefits them. I don't see them as any better or worse than Labour in that regard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Are labour going to achieve independence ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The majority follow the 'Britain's road to socialism' programme, independence would have split the trade unions removing any hope of a resurgence of the Labour movement. The splitting of the Unions was a sore point for me, but one I was willing to sacrifice in exchange for the hope of a progressive government. The far left disagreed. I don't really follow the reasoning for the U.K. being an appropriate 'unit' in which socialism can be introduced, but an independent Scotland not being so? I think perhaps that (counter-intuitive though it may be to the internationalism of most socialist ideas) it would be easier to argue for, and achieve socialism in a smaller state than a larger one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Are labour going to achieve independence ? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I found the opposite to be the case. The only far left group Is can think of who argued for a No vote were the Communist Party of Great Britain. The Communist Party of Scotland, on the other hand, backed a Yes vote. Splitters!... It's all a bit People's Front of Judea v Judean People's Front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think perhaps that (counter-intuitive though it may be to the internationalism of most socialist ideas) it would be easier to argue for, and achieve socialism in a smaller state than a larger one. That makes sense. The only genuinely collectivist societies have been small-scale. Socialist empires don't really work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Are labour going to achieve independence ? I think Scunnered would opine that 'what's the point in independence if it makes the working class worse off / no better?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think Scunnered would opine that 'what's the point in independence if it makes the working class worse off / no better?' I did admit before the referendum that if I believed equality and social justice could be achieved in Britain then I'd vote No, however I decided fairly early on that splitting the TU's was a worthy sacrifice for a potential progressive government, and with the tone of the indyref I genuinely believed that the SNP could be defeated post independence. Fast forward a few months and the progressive nature of the indyref campaign has been replaced by Independence at any cost. I still support independence... But nowhere near as keenly as enthusiastically as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I did admit before the referendum that if I believed equality and social justice could be achieved in Britain then I'd vote No, however I decided fairly early on that splitting the TU's was a worthy sacrifice for a potential progressive government, and with the tone of the indyref I genuinely believed that the SNP could be defeated post independence. Fast forward a few months and the progressive nature of the indyref campaign has been replaced by Independence at any cost. I still support independence... But nowhere near as keenly as enthusiastically as before. I remember that article you linked to a while back about how the SNP seem to be becoming slightly peronist... Hit the nail on the head for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think Scunnered would opine that 'what's the point in independence if it makes the working class worse off / no better?' He knows my views fine. There is zero chance of any change for the better while part of the UK. None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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