Scotland Must Leave 18 September Behind

[Clyde1998]

I didn't get as far as reading the list in detail because in his introduction he makes the big mistake that all critics of people still being active make.

He talks in terms of the 45 and the 55 and the implication that those who voted NO are happy with the union as it is.

How many that voted no did so because devo max (or whatever you want to call it) was not an option at that point? By all accounts before the vote, this was the majority, so if you add those who voted no who wanted more to the 45 then this is the current majority that is being ignored by the media - they only go on about "you lost so get over it".

Do many of those who wanted independence or devo max (or believed Brown's as near Home Rule as possible" or "federalism") really believe the Smith Commission proposals come anywhere near this?

That is what it is about now and that is what people like Hassan should be writing about - not telling us how long it is since the referendum. They should be asking how long it will be before we get anything near what we were promised and questioniing any politician who repeats "the vow has been delivered" when feck all has been delivered but a fecking report, and one which, if it is implemented, will deliver feck all compared to what the "vow" promised.

I remember that the YouGov poll that showed Yes at 51% had a question in it asking people how they would vote if it was a three option referendum.

Imagine that, instead of the proposed two-option referendum on independence there was a three-option referendum, offering people the choice of full Scottish independence, increased devolution to the Scottish Parliament or maintaining the Scottish Parliament's existing powers. How would you then vote?

• Scottish Independence - 42% (45% without don't knows)
• Increased devolution - 36% (40%)
• Maintain existing powers - 14% (15%)
• Don't Know/Wouldn't Vote - 7%

Of those who said they would vote yes:

• Indy - 88%
• Devo - 12%
• Status Quo - 0%

Of those who said they would vote no:

• Indy - 1%
• Devo - 65%
• Status Quo - 34%

Of those 65% on no voters - a fair few would've moved to support the idea of independence.

We only need ~14% of those who wanted increased devo to move to yes - for the independence movement to be ahead of extra devo and status quo put together. (Based on this poll). It may have already happened...

[Orraloon]

I absolutely agree with this, but wouldn't the same argument apply to many of those that voted 'yes'? How many who voted yes would have preferred devo max or home rule but as it wasn't on the ballot went for their second choice?

After the "vow" was made, it effectively was on the ballot paper. It just came under the "NO" section. After the vow was made it just came down to how many "Devomaxers" were daft enough to believe that the unionists would honour their promise.

[Armchair Bob]

Of those who said they would vote yes:

• Indy - 88%
• Devo - 12%
• Status Quo - 0%

Of those who said they would vote no:

• Indy - 1%
• Devo - 65%
• Status Quo - 34%

Of those 65% on no voters - a fair few would've moved to support the idea of independence.

We only need ~14% of those who wanted increased devo to move to yes - for the independence movement to be ahead of extra devo and status quo put together. (Based on this poll). It may have already happened...

Those figures are eye-popping. I always though the hardcore unionist vote was around a third of the total population. From that poll it is in fact a sixth. Yet it is hard for me to reconcile this with my own experience of no voters, I haven't come across any who voted no for more powers. They all voted no to stop independence.

[Watsoniansfan]

I absolutely agree with this, but wouldn't the same argument apply to many of those that voted 'yes'? How many who voted yes would have preferred devo max or home rule but as it wasn't on the ballot went for their second choice?

If Devo Max had been on the ballot paper, the entire UK would surely have had to have a say. It would be a constitutional game-changer.

[Watsoniansfan]

Those figures are eye-popping. I always though the hardcore unionist vote was around a third of the total population. From that poll it is in fact a sixth. Yet it is hard for me to reconcile this with my own experience of no voters, I haven't come across any who voted no for more powers. They all voted no to stop independence.

Certainly true in my case, and also among friends and family who voted No. I think YES actually did score a significant victory by making the referendum not about "An Independent Scotland Versus Staying in the UK" but "An Independent Scotland Versus a Souped-Up and Improved UK".

I've been very happy with Devolution but it has caused complications. One of my concerns is further devolution will magnify these. I see that as a much bigger threat to the future of the UK than any hypothetical future Scottish IndyRef (which I'm convinced will be a long time coming).