Lamia Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 University of the West of Scotland = Bell College. Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Wrong. If you're going to be pedantic I'll correct it University of the West of Scotland = Bell College + Paisley Tech. Hope this make you feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 If you're going to be pedantic I'll correct it University of the West of Scotland = Bell College + Paisley Tech. Hope this make you feel better. It isn't pedantic to correct something which is factually inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 It isn't pedantic to correct something which is factually inaccurate. It wasn't meant to factually accurate it was simply a wee joke at the expense of the Harvard of Paisley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 It wasn't meant to factually accurate it was simply a wee joke at the expense of the Harvard of Paisley. I was certainly splitting my sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I was certainly splitting my sides. You overestimate my interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Plug the example he gives of newspapers and journalism into the opening description and it makes sense. It's mildly tautological. There are more forgiving definintions of shibboleth, contextually, than the one you've focussed on. Wiki, citing the following dictionaries - ^ Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th ed, (Oxford University Press, 1990), 1117. ^ Merriam-Webster Dictionary, shibboleth, accessed online 22 September 2015, [1]. ^ Collins English Dictionary, shibboleth, accessed online 22 September 2015, [2]. ^ Chambers 21st Century Dictionary, shibboleth, accessed online 22 September 2015, [3] - gives this broader definition: 'an old belief or saying which is cited repetitively or unreflectively but which is, or may be, fallacious or untrue.[3][4][5][6]' E.g. (my take on the authors meaning in the article) - MSM (newspapers) are a bastion of authoritative and credibile reporting, representative of a free press and liberty. Any clearer? Nope. It makes no sense cause it is nonsense, not cause i need someone to explain it better to me I used the advanced learner oxford university dictionary for my definition. If you prefer wiki that's up to you. "...but which is, or may be, fallacious or untrue" instead of " no longer accepted by many people as important or appropriate to modern life" Both definitions prop up my argument. He's presenting a characteristic of Shibboleth as being "can survive unscathed as conventional, unchallengeable wisdom for endless decades" the bold in their definition is contradicted by both definitions. How can a shibboleth survive unscathed and yet at the same time be no longer accepted by many and also be fallacious or untrue. Anyway anyone who thinks MSM is a bastion of authority has never critically investigated anything it says. There's never been a free press and liberty doesn't come from them either. Right onto other less pedantic pursuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I dont have the tekkers to post links etc, but if anyone could get up the lyrics and/or a performance of Billy Bragg's "It Says Here", it is scarily prescient on this. It was the first thing that got me questioning the media. Edited December 21, 2015 by killiefaetheferry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You overestimate my interest. I wasn't gauging that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Nope. It makes no sense cause it is nonsense, not cause i need someone to explain it better to me I used the advanced learner oxford university dictionary for my definition. If you prefer wiki that's up to you. "...but which is, or may be, fallacious or untrue" instead of " no longer accepted by many people as important or appropriate to modern life" Both definitions prop up my argument. He's presenting a characteristic of Shibboleth as being "can survive unscathed as conventional, unchallengeable wisdom for endless decades" the bold in their definition is contradicted by both definitions. How can a shibboleth survive unscathed and yet at the same time be no longer accepted by many and also be fallacious or untrue. Anyway anyone who thinks MSM is a bastion of authority has never critically investigated anything it says. There's never been a free press and liberty doesn't come from them either. Right onto other less pedantic pursuits. I don't 'prefer' Wiki but used it because it canvassed its definition from several sources; a definition which helps with understanding the writers choice of language.I've not read the whole article but suspect the notion of 'unscathed' may represent a conflation of ideas in that it relates more to the influence of the shibboleth (mainstream papers, full of propaganda) and yet they were still able to significantly influence people's consciousness/beliefs/voting patterns. It's that element of their influence, which does appear to be remarkably intact (albeit within certain sections of a population; there's a possible parallel to be drawn here with shibboleth's original meaning, in as much that a custom could be used to differentiate between two groups. Much like MSM adherents vs others). I'd agree 'unscathed' neglects to consider the rise and influence of alternative media in terms of circulation/income generated by MSM paper rags, and in this sense the shibboleth has been damaged. Unfortunately, their apparent ability to significantly control reality remains undimmed - hence Shibboleth and 'unscathed.' The other consideration is the control exerted by the proponents of the shibboleth over any form of open debate relating to it. There doesn't appear to be any pressure being exerted for greater credibility/more robust and truthful reporting, despite many folk being aware they represent anything but this. Shibboleth unscathed again. Glad you've moved onto less pedantic pursuits. I can finish putting the kids to bed. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I don't 'prefer' Wiki but used it because it canvassed its definition from several sources; a definition which helps with understanding the writers choice of language. ; there's a possible parallel to be drawn here with shibboleth's original meaning, in as much that a custom could be used to differentiate between two groups. Much like MSM adherents vs others). Fair enough I know i'm not being "fair" in using the most charitable definition when assessing the author,as one should for open as possible discourse but, I'm also just joking around a bit cause of the extreme verbosity of the piece. My constant moaning about it does invite folk to engage on it. I should have just kept quiet, i was vocalising being made to work too hard for comprehension. that interpretation makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'd guessed as much (about the joking). S/he's definitely guilty of 'extreme verbosity' and when that's a barrier to comprehension, it's not good. Think I may have been guilty myself on occasion; perhaps that's what drew me to the discussion? Either that or I was simply struggling to find anywhere else to go and debate 'shibboleth.'? Gotta love the TAMB (most times). ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If I were editing that id replace the whole thing with 'the trouble with conventional wisdom is it is often pish'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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