CFB362 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I know we could debate all day but I think your account of the game at Celtic Park is innacurate, the worst performances I've ever seen are ones in which defences fall apart, Ireland worked hard but lacked a bit of end product. I suggest your disappointment is because you feel you have significantly better players and should beat us. For me the biggest difference was the managers, O'neil went with a 4-4-2 away to a side with a continental style 4-2-3-1, allowing us to play between 3 straight lines. I agree with your comments about our team ethic, but team-work can only showcase ability not create it out of nowhere. However saying ''the one thing Scotland have'' isn't on the money, They are full of pace like Anya, have a solid midfield and forward players who's abilities complement each other very well. I generally like to see Ireland do well, but the biggest problem in your side is a lack of style or philosophy, I haven't been able to work out how Ireland actually want to play yet. I think the sides are close but Scotland are better formed and tactically the game suits us, but Im a football fan and not mystic meg so the score could be anything. I'm well aware of Scotlands good technical abilities mate, I find it odd how Ireland can't string two passes in succession with similar players. Strachen does a great job of turning players who may not be the most talented individually into a good team. O'Neill almost does the opposite. He turns average players into below average players. For example McCarthy and Coleman play a very technical game with Everton, Longs Southampton play good football too and to some extent even Stoke where Whelan,Walters and Wilson play have also become a better passing team,yet when these lads pull on a green jersey it's like 11 headless chickens on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 O'Neill almost does the opposite. He turns average players into below average players. For example McCarthy and Coleman play a very technical game with Everton, Longs Southampton play good football too and to some extent even Stoke where Whelan,Walters and Wilson play have also become a better passing team,yet when these lads pull on a green jersey it's like 11 headless chickens on the pitch. Hmm so the Irish 'chosen one' is disappointing their support? As I recall it there was almost a demand that O'Neill got the job and here he is failing to deliver? Better or worse than Trappatoni? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hmm so the Irish 'chosen one' is disappointing their support? As I recall it there was almost a demand that O'Neill got the job and here he is failing to deliver? Better or worse than Trappatoni? It most certainly wasn't a demand he got the job. Yes lots wanted him but equally lots didn't want him as first choice....myself included Better or worse than trappatoni.....I'll tell you at the end of the qualification group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It most certainly wasn't a demand he got the job. Yes lots wanted him but equally lots didn't want him as first choice....myself included Better or worse than trappatoni.....I'll tell you at the end of the qualification group Must have been the media then. Would you have rather they went foreign again then Green_Tide_Rising? As I recall it Trappatoni just lost backing of the fans from crazy team selections and a seeming lack of ability to motivate the players.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFB362 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Hmm so the Irish 'chosen one' is disappointing their support? As I recall it there was almost a demand that O'Neill got the job and here he is failing to deliver? Better or worse than Trappatoni?Would never of callen him 'the chosen one' in fact I feel O'Neill is more partial to the North than the Republic. Would much prefer Brian Kerr,Mick McCarthy or possibly even Chris Houghton as Ireland manager. Edited June 12, 2015 by CFB362 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtag Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm surprised that so many seem to rate Brady, I like Hull and always want them to win when I watch them but for me Brady is a waste of a jersey. I wouldn't have him under any circumstances and would have Robertson, Whittaker,Forsyth, Bardsley, Wallace and Mulgrew at left back before him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFB362 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hmm so the Irish 'chosen one' is disappointing their support? As I recall it there was almost a demand that O'Neill got the job and here he is failing to deliver? Better or worse than Trappatoni? No offense to Scotland, but under Trapatoni, you wouldn't of won in Glasgow, and we would of drew in Dublin too, Trap relied on drawing with the similar sides and hoping for them to lose to the likes of Georgia. (For example Ireland vs Slovakia 1-1 and 0-0 and then they went on to lose 4-1 to Armenia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 No offense to Scotland, but under Trapatoni, you wouldn't of won in Glasgow, and we would of drew in Dublin too, Trap relied on drawing with the similar sides and hoping for them to lose to the likes of Georgia. (For example Ireland vs Slovakia 1-1 and 0-0 and then they went on to lose 4-1 to Armenia) Easy enough stuff to say though. We could muse that if we hadn't had Levein in charge for that tournament we would have won the tournament with Wales, yourselves and Norther Ireland but...c'est la vie. No offence to Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFB362 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Easy enough stuff to say though. We could muse that if we hadn't had Levein in charge for that tournament we would have won the tournament with Wales, yourselves and Norther Ireland but...c'est la vie. No offence to Ireland. Ah yeah it is a bit assuming on my part. But Slovakia,Bulgaria,Austria,Sweden,Russia,Montengro were all draws. O'Neill hasn't got the same knack of getting results that Trap had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 No offense to Scotland, but under Trapatoni, you wouldn't of won in Glasgow But: Scotland 1-0 Ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Ah yeah it is a bit assuming on my part. But Slovakia,Bulgaria,Austria,Sweden,Russia,Montengro were all draws. O'Neill hasn't got the same knack of getting results that Trap had. What we have here seems clear. Ireland have had the luxury of being able to buy the best managers around who have squeezed results out because of that. O'Neill comes in and lacks their ability and so that ability to squeeze out results have gone. Scotland have went the other way (without the money aspect). We have had two managers not up to the job in Burley and Levein who dragged us down and were never the fans choice as the boss. Now the SFA have made their first competent appointment in a while and Strachan has that ability to squeeze results out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtag Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) No offense to Scotland, but under Trapatoni, you wouldn't of won in Glasgow, and we would of drew in Dublin too, Trap relied on drawing with the similar sides and hoping for them to lose to the likes of Georgia. (For example Ireland vs Slovakia 1-1 and 0-0 and then they went on to lose 4-1 to Armenia)I read from that. (Having been at the game at Celtic park)Under Trapatoni we would be even more boring and unimaginative than we are now if you can imagine such a thing. We couldn't beat a Slovakia team that Armenia put 4 past. Now I know Ireland are a decent side and can beat anyone on their day but they need to start playing to win rather than settling for a draw rather than a defeat. Edited June 12, 2015 by Jagtag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFB362 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I read from that. (Having been at the game at Celtic park) Under Trapatoni we would be even more boring and unimaginative than we are now if you can imagine such a thing. We couldn't beat a Slovakia team that Armenia put 4 past. Now I know Ireland are a decent side and can beat anyone on their day but they need to start playing to win rather than settling for a draw rather than a defeat. Your spot on there. If you think O'Neills Ireland are bad to watch, then you should of seen Traps! There's no reason why Ireland can't play good football and get results with the players available. Even against the dodgy teams like Georgia,Macedonia,Armenia,Kazahstan (all of whom we have played recently) we let them dominate periods of possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) What we have here seems clear. Ireland have had the luxury of being able to buy the best managers around who have squeezed results out because of that. Sorry but that is unfair. We only got extra funding via Denis of brien for trap and MON. Pre that the Irish managers salary wasn't crazy high like it is now. Also over the last 12 years we have had some great players. What you may not realise and therest is no reason u shud....but Ireland won the under 16 European championship in 1997 , the under 18 euro championship in 1999 and came 3rd in the u21 world cup iñ 1999/2000.....my point in telling you this is that this era was a golden generation for us and several of these players went on to play senior level for Ireland for many years after and get us to world cup and European championships Edited June 12, 2015 by Green_Tide_Rising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I never said that practice had been going on for twenty years or anything. As for youth/U-21's the key is nurturing those talents through into full level. We (Scotland) have similarly had success at junior levels and it is hoped they will breakthrough in the coming years but we shall see. For us (Scotland) things are slowly heading in the right direction after years of mis-management and false dawns. I am hoping this time we will get something tangible from this rich vein of form other than false hope. I cannot speak for Ireland as I don't follow your exploits too closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Sorry but that is unfair. We only got extra funding via Denis of brien for trap and MON. Pre that the Irish managers salary wasn't crazy high like it is now. Also over the last 12 years we have had some great players. What you may not realise and therest is no reason u shud....but Ireland won the under 16 European championship in 1997 , the under 18 euro championship in 1999 and came 3rd in the u21 world cup iñ 1999/2000.....my point in telling you this is that this era was a golden generation for us and several of these players went on to play senior level for Ireland for many years after and get us to world cup and European championships You did have some wonderful players. Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane, Roy Keane, Duff, Rob Keane and others. Sadly for you, that level of quality isnt available to you anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFB362 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You did have some wonderful players. Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane, Roy Keane, Duff, Rob Keane and others. Sadly for you, that level of quality isnt available to you anymore. Thankfully for us tomorrow,that quality isn't available to you either ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney Hawkes TA Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 What we have here seems clear. Ireland have had the luxury of being able to buy the best managers around who have squeezed results out because of that. O'Neill comes in and lacks their ability and so that ability to squeeze out results have gone. Scotland have went the other way (without the money aspect). We have had two managers not up to the job in Burley and Levein who dragged us down and were never the fans choice as the boss. Now the SFA have made their first competent appointment in a while and Strachan has that ability to squeeze results out. Ireland have had the luxury of being able to buy the best managers around Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney Hawkes TA Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I never said that practice had been going on for twenty years or anything. As for youth/U-21's the key is nurturing those talents through into full level. We (Scotland) have similarly had success at junior levels and it is hoped they will breakthrough in the coming years but we shall see. For us (Scotland) things are slowly heading in the right direction after years of mis-management and false dawns. I am hoping this time we will get something tangible from this rich vein of form other than false hope. I cannot speak for Ireland as I don't follow your exploits too closely. We (Scotland) have similarly had success at junior levels Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You did have some wonderful players. Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane, Roy Keane, Duff, Rob Keane and others. Sadly for you, that level of quality isnt available to you anymore. Aye for sure....like I said ....golden generation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 We (Scotland) have similarly had success at junior levels Right. Never realised ye had done well/won things at underage recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Don Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) GTR where aboots you drinking the night ? Need tae shout you a pint Cheers Edited June 12, 2015 by Tartan_Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney Hawkes TA Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Never realised ye had done well/won things at underage recently? Scotland's age group teams a constant presence in the latter stages of UEFA and FIFA competitions.The Spanish federation sent their coaches over here to learn from our incredibly successful, and envied, youth coaching system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Scotland's age group teams a constant presence in the latter stages of UEFA and FIFA competitions.The Spanish federation sent their coaches over here to learn from our incredibly successful, and envied, youth coaching system.Credit to ye for that lad. Wouldn't follow yereselves underage for obvious reasons. Always good to see youth level be invested in and allowed to grow. It is the future after all Edited June 12, 2015 by Green_Tide_Rising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) GTR where aboots you drinking the night ? Need tae shout you a pint Cheers Not sure mate..still suffering in work.No definite destination decided this weekend except for lansdowne road at 5pm tomorrow (: Was glad to help the T.A iñ anyway I cud as I know the rest of the Irish on here were mate. Whatever the score tomorrow, wish ye all a great time over here Slainte! Edited June 12, 2015 by Green_Tide_Rising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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