Clyde1998 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Scottish Debt: £125,547,209,200 (£125.5bn) UK Debt: £1,519,942,000,000 (£1,519.9bn) rUK Debt: £1,394,394,790,800 (£1,394.4bn) Scottish GDP: £152,765,000,000 (£152.8bn) UK GDP: £1,732,914,000,000 (£1,732.9bn) rUK GDP: £1,580,149,000,000 (£1,580.1bn) Scottish Debt to GDP ratio: 82.2% UK Debt to GDP ratio: 87.7% rUK Debt to GDP ratio: 88.2% Scottish debt is calculated as a population share. So - despite us having a larger budget deficit (as % of GDP), we have less debt to GDP - so we'd in a better position with FFA (which would give us control over debt) than the current arrangement. We'd could reduce debt repayments (to an appropriate figure) - allowing us to reduce our deficit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 UKs deficit last year was more than £97Bn..... Scotland's share dropped by more than £2Bn. they did notice, they are just selectively lying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 UKs deficit last year was more than £97Bn..... Scotland's share dropped by more than £2Bn. they did notice, they are just selectively lying.. The guardian said it was £120 billion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I see the Scotsman saying the SNP vote could be irrelevant if the lib dems jump into bed with labour. Is this whole referendum all about advocating how to stop the SNP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I see the Scotsman saying the SNP vote could be irrelevant if the lib dems jump into bed with labour. Is this whole referendum all about advocating how to stop the SNP? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Yes. Its f&cking pathetic. I just hope the vote holds and people don't fall for this sh@t. 4 weeks to go still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I see the Scotsman saying the SNP vote could be irrelevant if the lib dems jump into bed with labour. Is this whole referendum all about advocating how to stop the SNP? Are we having another one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I see the Scotsman saying the SNP vote could be irrelevant if the lib dems jump into bed with labour. Is this whole referendum all about advocating how to stop the SNP? It will all come down to what the final numbers are. Some of the polls are suggesting Lib Dems will go down to about 28 seats. If Labour get 285 seats they will only have 313 between them. They will need somebody else to help them out. Of course Labour + SNP might not be enough on their own either. I still think the Tories will win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I see the Scotsman saying the SNP vote could be irrelevant if the lib dems jump into bed with labour. Is this whole referendum all about advocating how to stop the SNP? i haven't bought the Scotsman for some time and have recently tried to avoid looking at it's front page headline even when in a shop helps a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 is it just me or are the unionists painting themselves into a desperately small corner in the run up to this election... screaming that they wont make cuts, the SNP have a 'black hole' - there is a part of me that thinks if Labour wins and cuts £30Bn then its all over for them in Scotland and if the Tories win its all over anyway.. at some point the only function of the Union is to provide financial stability and security. If it can't do that whats the point of it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ed Balls has confirmed on Radio 4 that cuts will be made in all of UK. I'm confused, Skelator said they weren't (there were other ways). Thankfully, we have an excellent impartial media, who shall seek urgent clarification from Mr. Murphy today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Labour are definitely backing themselves into a corner if they win this election. They'll preside over major cuts in Scotland and hope noone notices. What they're probably gambling on is making those cuts but putting the blame at the SNPs door. The SNP on dangerous territory here though too - they'll be passing on those cuts and need to ensure it's clear why cuts are being made. Would like to see the SNP make more noise that cuts are coming regardless of whether Labour or Tories are in power. If SNP prop up Labour vote by vote, they're going to be complicit in those cuts making it harder to criticise Westminsyter for the cuts. Must do more to press Labour on where the cuts are going to come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfieMoon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Scottish Debt: £125,547,209,200 (£125.5bn) UK Debt: £1,519,942,000,000 (£1,519.9bn) rUK Debt: £1,394,394,790,800 (£1,394.4bn) Scottish GDP: £152,765,000,000 (£152.8bn) UK GDP: £1,732,914,000,000 (£1,732.9bn) rUK GDP: £1,580,149,000,000 (£1,580.1bn) Scottish Debt to GDP ratio: 82.2% UK Debt to GDP ratio: 87.7% rUK Debt to GDP ratio: 88.2% Scottish debt is calculated as a population share. So - despite us having a larger budget deficit (as % of GDP), we have less debt to GDP - so we'd in a better position with FFA (which would give us control over debt) than the current arrangement. We'd could reduce debt repayments (to an appropriate figure) - allowing us to reduce our deficit. The only thing I'd say to counter this is that this is statistics speak which can always be twisted. We can quote the GDP figure if we want but it comes down to how much tax revenue is generated and I think from memory that we are weaker from that perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 The only thing I'd say to counter this is that this is statistics speak which can always be twisted. We can quote the GDP figure if we want but it comes down to how much tax revenue is generated and I think from memory that we are weaker from that perspective. I used the figures in the latest GERS report (for both Scotland and the UK totals) for GDP and the latest figure for UK Debt as the debt figure (Population share for Scotland). Scotland's GDP is 8.8% [assuming a geographic share of oil, which FFA would give] of the UK, but 8.26% of the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) What a lot of people don't realise also is that with FFA we shouldn't pay the £4 billion in debt service charges, we won't need to pay for the houses of parliament and we should pay at least £1 billion less for defence. These costs should be spelt out more clearly. Of course some of these items are arguable. Edited April 13, 2015 by antidote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 we generate more tax than the UK average almost all the time..... the problem is looking at it over a single year you can make a case for pretty much anything. Looking at it over 30 years we have over-contributed to the union treasury by more than £220Bn - and the average price of oil was substantially lower for most of that time. No unionist will really take you on in an honest discussion about finances, its not a winnable argument. So they use the debt (they created) to say 'look how terrible things are'.... In the end they are just nationalists looking to make any argument back up their sentimental feelings.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 What a lot of people don't realise also is that with FFA we shouldn't pay the £4 billion in debt service charges, we won't need to pay for the houses of parliament and we should pay at least £1 billion less for defence. These costs should be spelt out more clearly. Of course some of these items are arguable. there is also the huge boost our economy would get by relating thousands of jobs and assets to Scotland which are currently in Scotland. It is a massive win for Scotland any way you look at it... it saddens me we didn't get the large numbers of middle class families who would benefit from these professional jobs on our side in the referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ed Balls has confirmed on Radio 4 that cuts will be made in all of UK. I'm confused, Skelator said they weren't (there were other ways). Thankfully, we have an excellent impartial media, who shall seek urgent clarification from Mr. Murphy today. so lets get this straight jim murphy has said there would be no cuts in Scotland but his superior ed balls has now confirmed that there will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 so lets get this straight jim murphy has said there would be no cuts in Scotland but his superior ed balls has now confirmed that there will be Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 expect none of this to be challenged or appear in any media outlet. (except the National) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 What a lot of people don't realise also is that with FFA we shouldn't pay the £4 billion in debt service charges, we won't need to pay for the houses of parliament and we should pay at least £1 billion less for defence. These costs should be spelt out more clearly. Of course some of these items are arguable. agreed...... the debt 'assigned' to Scotland is a nonsense. It is doubtful if you look at the relative high spending and investment in the southeast that we got a population share of the spending. We should not accept a population share of the debt. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfieMoon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 What a lot of people don't realise also is that with FFA we shouldn't pay the £4 billion in debt service charges, we won't need to pay for the houses of parliament and we should pay at least £1 billion less for defence. These costs should be spelt out more clearly. Of course some of these items are arguable. I'm on your side but I think that all of that is arguable. If we take our share of the debt then we have the interest to pay on that so I can't see any improvement in that alone. With regards to defence - it would remain reserved under FFA so again, this would be no change there as to what we pay. Houses of Parliament are of UK importance and while we are part of the UK and sending MP's to Westminster then I don't see how we avoid paying for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Alfie. There would be, in reality, no need for Scottish MPs to be at Westminster. The other 2 are arguable I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Alfie. There would be, in reality, no need for Scottish MPs to be at Westminster. The other 2 are arguable I agree. I am pretty sure there are 2 possible/likely scenarios if the SNP get 40+ MPs, regardless of who governs, the SLAB Party will split and form a CDU/CSU type arrangement with British labour. This will lead to home rule eventually as BritLabour need only focus on English voters and SLab on Scottish voters. If the SNP are actually in a position to 'lock the Tories out' then I think the Tories will offer the SNP full devo-max in return for removing Scottish MPs from Westminster. The SNP will accept since it can claim the Tories will no longer ever govern Scotland and the Tories can then form a government with the LDs and/or UKIP. This would also give the Tories an electoral advantage in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I am pretty sure there are 2 possible/likely scenarios if the SNP get 40+ MPs, regardless of who governs, the SLAB Party will split and form a CDU/CSU type arrangement with British labour. This will lead to home rule eventually as BritLabour need only focus on English voters and SLab on Scottish voters. If the SNP are actually in a position to 'lock the Tories out' then I think the Tories will offer the SNP full devo-max in return for removing Scottish MPs from Westminster. The SNP will accept since it can claim the Tories will no longer ever govern Scotland and the Tories can then form a government with the LDs and/or UKIP. This would also give the Tories an electoral advantage in the short term. I think we need to get Boris on our side for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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