No Euphoria Here

[ironbrew]

Curious here. Realise that many people here are not pro-independence or bothered about politics but many normally are but don`t see much if any sign of celebration here after Thursday`s election. I`m in my 50s and have voted SNP in every election where I`ve had had vote (lived abroad a lot and didn`t have vote in referendum or on Thursday) and was a party member in 70s before I was old enough to vote. Have always been in favour of independence and then Scots deciding what parties should be in control whether right, left, centre or whatever. My politics are left of centre but that doesn`t mean I dream of an independent Scotland with a one-party socialist state. In the last couple of years I`ve met Scots who have become fanatical nationalists who were previously Labour fanatics (or at least voted Labour cause their dad did etc ) but am not sure if they`d vote for independence if they thought Scottish government might not be socialist or if England and Wales voted Labour. Reading profiles in Scotsman of some of the new SNP Westminster MPs (say some because they only mentioned some) and some say they are "independence candidates" as though others may not be. What is the situation? Of course some NO voters backed the SNP on Thursday and SNP realise that they can`t pressurise for another referendum for at least a couple of years but what do Scots really think? Jim Sillars attacked what he called 90-minute nationalists and I shared his frustration at the time (still do!) but that didn`t mean you had to be left wing to believe in independence. As I said at the beginning I`m curious: Is SNP/Greens (?) movement restricted to left-wing policies? (may not be left-wing but may have to seem to be similar to policies of Labour party in England and Wales).

[Maq]

What's the question pal?

[Ally Bongo]

Independence should not be about Scotland having a left of centre Government although i dare say thats what the 100,000 SNP members want

It should be about Scotland getting the party and policies it votes for every time regardless of what that party stands for

That is the nationalism that we seek.

It is not ethnic but the Unionists make it out to be that

Tommy Sheppard said today that he didnt join the SNP because he is a nationalist per se and i think that speaks for most SNP members

[Ally Bongo]

And dont let Scunnered see you saying the SNP are restricted to left wing policies or he will have a field day

[exile]

Seems to me the SNP under Sturgeon took the opportunity to tack to the left post indyref, and hoover up a third of the Labour vote, to destroy Scottish Labour at Westminster. Not a bad bit of political business in a few months (understatement!), that must have solidified much of the '45' as future SNP voters but without necessarily doing much to raise from 45 to 55 or 65. I think they will ultimately need to appeal to a wider constituency to gain a nation at ease with itself if making a final push for independence.

Edited May 9, 2015 by exile

[kps022000]

I am a London based, card carrying member of the SNP that would describe myself as a 'small c' conservative and 100% backs independence. I sit to the right of centre but to the left of mainstream politics of England. There is a place for everyone in an Independent Scotland and if we maintain a fair election system, which I have no reason to think that we would not, then our future will be based in co-operation, consideration and hopefully mature politics.

I am also disturbed by the almost win/lose, football match adaptation of politics these days. Maybe there was no celebration on here as people realise that they only thing that was 'won' on Thursday was the loud voice. What we say or how it is delivered is now up to 56 MPs. I expect a few bumps along the way as is only natural but I am optimistic that our representatives can deliver on both on a local and national level.

Edited May 9, 2015 by kps022000

[the_burger]

As Aidan moffat said on twitter 'it is a strange thing living in a country with a unanimous voice but still feeling like a hopeless minority'.

Don't get me wrong, I am delighted on a Scottish level. But imo disaster at UK level, and we'll all get fukked. Mixed emotions.

[the_burger]

As Aidan moffat said on twitter 'it is a strange thing living in a country with a unanimous voice but still feeling like a hopeless minority'.

Don't get me wrong, I am delighted on a Scottish level. But imo disaster at UK level, and we'll all get fukked. Mixed emotions.

[Scunnered]

And dont let Scunnered see you saying the SNP are restricted to left wing policies or he will have a field day

I was at Blair Drummond safari park yesterday, cracking day out and I got into a conversation with my heterosexual life partners father in law... I say conversation but he mostly talked at me, I had little input, but it was interesting.

His wife is a counsellor in a women's shelter, so they know first hand the brutal Scottish Government cuts regime. His reasoning for voting SNP was "Sure the SNP can be as bad as the Tories, but use their rhetoric to influence Westminster. I dislike them as much as you do, but make use of their dishonesty to Scotland's benefit in Westminster and they'll slowly expose themselves in Holyrood", yes that's a quote, but not verbatim obviously.

The sad thing is, with the sorry state of British politics, there is sense in what he's saying.

[albathebrave]

What's the question pal?

[albathebrave]

snp are the vehicle for independence to me, i dont have to agree with every policy they have.

[albathebrave]

Independence should not be about Scotland having a left of centre Government although i dare say thats what the 100,000 SNP members want

It should be about Scotland getting the party and policies it votes for every time regardless of what that party stands for

That is the nationalism that we seek.

It is not ethnic but the Unionists make it out to be that

Tommy Sheppard said today that he didnt join the SNP because he is a nationalist per se and i think that speaks for most SNP members

Good post. I am a nationalist and proud to be one though.

[Ally Bongo]

His wife is a counsellor in a women's shelter, so they know first hand the brutal Scottish Government cuts regime. His reasoning for voting SNP was "Sure the SNP can be as bad as the Tories, but use their rhetoric to influence Westminster. I dislike them as much as you do, but make use of their dishonesty to Scotland's benefit in Westminster and they'll slowly expose themselves in Holyrood", yes that's a quote, but not verbatim obviously.

The sad thing is, with the sorry state of British politics, there is sense in what he's saying.

To be honest this is where we 100% disagree Scunnered and its if you are almost deliberately trying to be disingenuous when you say things like "brutal Scottish Government cuts regime"

I think you forget how much politically aware Scotland is

Not only are people less likely to be taken in by the right wing Scotland is too wee too poor & too stupid SNP marxists line anymore but we are also not buying the line that the SNP are actually the Tories in disguise that emits from the left wing

Scotland has to run it's affairs on what it gets back from Westminster

Scotland is not allowed to go into defecit

The SNP have made choices on spending around the NHS. Education, Free Prescriptions, Free personal care et al which has the knock on effect on all our other public services when the aforementioned are protected.

Any underspend is carried forward into the following years budget

The left make a big deal about the small business bonus as their evidence

What they dont tell you is that start up businesses have increased year on year since the bonus was introduced

The bonus helps wee businesses save about £4000 a year which in turn helps create jobs. What do the left think would happen if this was immediately taken away ? What would the effect be on jobs ?

They also dont mention that there is also a similar scheme which helps local authorities where they also benefit from rates relief which in turn allows them to have more jobs in the public sector

Edited May 10, 2015 by Ally Bongo

[joe545]

I was at Blair Drummond safari park yesterday, cracking day out and I got into a conversation with my heterosexual life partners father in law... I say conversation but he mostly talked at me, I had little input, but it was interesting.

His wife is a counsellor in a women's shelter, so they know first hand the brutal Scottish Government cuts regime. His reasoning for voting SNP was "Sure the SNP can be as bad as the Tories, but use their rhetoric to influence Westminster. I dislike them as much as you do, but make use of their dishonesty to Scotland's benefit in Westminster and they'll slowly expose themselves in Holyrood", yes that's a quote, but not verbatim obviously.

The sad thing is, with the sorry state of British politics, there is sense in what he's saying.

Unless your life partner is married to someone else then her father-in-law would be your own father ... I wonder if it is a coincidence that the rest of the story sounds made up

[Scunnered]

Unless your life partner is married to someone else then her father-in-law would be your own father ... I wonder if it is a coincidence that the rest of the story sounds made up

Good lord. Take a while, think about it and come back. Every word is the truth friend.

Ally Bongo I'll come back to your post shortly as it's rather long winded but you do me a disservice, I'm nothing but fair to our SNP government, sadly that also means I hold them to account on where their priority for cuts lie. We are however happily in agreement on cuts to the Scottish budget.

I'm going to carve Too wee, too poor, too stupid into Swinneys forehead

[Ally Bongo]

Good lord. Take a while, think about it and come back. Every word is the truth friend.

Ally Bongo I'll come back to your post shortly as it's rather long winded but you do me a disservice, I'm nothing but fair to our SNP government, sadly that also means I hold them to account on where their priority for cuts lie. We are however happily in agreement on cuts to the Scottish budget.

I'm going to carve Too wee, too poor, too stupid into Swinneys forehead

Ill probably agree with most of what you say provided it's constructive i.e plausable alternatives in the Scottish devolved climate

[redstevie007]

snp are the vehicle for independence to me, i dont have to agree with every policy they have.

Same here. I don't pretend to understand the details of every policy, or even the broad descriptions of party politics, such as 'socialism' or 'liberalism' or 'conservatism'. I'm not even that clued up on left-wing, right-wing, centre etc. there are one or two of the SNPs policies I disagree with but the fact is they're the only party who can give Scotland its independence and for that reason I'll continue to support them. They're the journey, not the destination.