Diamond Scot

If thats the case would you expect Stoke and West Brom to be bidding for Armstrong and Rogic in January? Or any other EPL clubs ir even Championship clubs Both could be picked up for 5m each which is nothing to either of these clubs. We are kidding ourselves if we think EPL players wouldnt walk into any team in Scotland.

People list the faults of players such ad Fletcher, Adam, Morrison etc however they are all still playing at a higher level. If they were as bad as people suggest they wouldnt be getting a game at that level. Likewise if Armstrong or any other scottish based player was as good as people say they would be playing at that level. They arent, why? because no manager in the EPL or championship agrees. If they did then they would have been bought. Its a pretty simple rule that the best players play in the best leagues. There is the odd exception but as a rule its true. Why dont we pick players from the likes of Livingston etc. They are flying atm and some players look fantastic. Answer. Its all about levels. Adam, Fletcher and Morrison would all walk into every single team in Scotland. For me its not about slagging off individual players. I actually like Armstrong both on and off the pitch. Its about recognising that he is playing at a much lesser level and realising that nomatter how good he looks playing there that it holds less weight.

Not having a go at you but I feel this is where we go wrong as a country football wise. We constantly think players playing well in Scotland means that they are good without taking into account the standard of opposition. Almost every player over the past 10 years who has been held up as a Scotland starter that has moved to England or abroad has failed to make an impact. Surely the best team comes from players who play week in week out at the highest level because A) they are used to playing against better opposition and they are being picked to play at that higher level. Armstrong is a prospect, no better and should be nowhere near the starting 11 until he plays at a higher level every week than the other options in the squad. McArthur, Fletcher, Morrison, Adam in EPL, then you have the likes of Bannan and others in the Championship. Griffiths is another classic example. He scores goals for the best team in the league against defenders who would be lucky to get a game in league 1 yet we think that justifys him a starting spot.

To find that out though clubs would have to be interest and put bids in for him in the 1st place. As far as we are aware they havent. Celtic would defo accept a bid of anywhere near 8-10 million that was paid for Rhodes and McCormack so im guessing we would have heard. As for whether he would be interested, saying that scoring goals winning things and playing around 6 games in proper euro competition would be enough to make him stay in Scotland probably takes away from the argument that he is our best striker. If a Scottish player was playing in the Irish league scoring 80 goals a year and playing in euro qualifiers or even the europa league would it make him our best striker? Id suggest not. What we know at the moment is that Griffith is an excellent domestic level striker. Id rather rather go with players able to compete reguarly at a higher level.

Griffiths is an excellent striker at domestic level. He failed to make the breakthrough in England and has done nothing at international level. Those are the facts. Whether he has improved as a player in the last few years since he came back to Scotland will only be answered if and when he plays in a better standard of league. When looking at who is better you have to take into account the professionals. Ie the scouts whose jobs it is to bring players to clubs. Did any clubs make a move for Griffiths in the last 2 years during which time both McCormack and Rhodes have made big money moves. During which time Fletcher and Martin have moved Championship clubs. If no moves have been made by these people for Griffiths then why not? Is it possibly the case that they dont think he is better? Simply saying Griffith is the best because he scored 40 goals against poor teams whilst playing for by far and away the most dominent team does nothing.

Yeah I know it wasnt his choice in thr end. Was just pointing out thr different ways a career can go. Staying in Scotland does not produce elite footballers. Id rather have 100 Ryan Gaulds or Jake Harpers who dont quite make it if it meant we produced one Gareth Bale who did. You could use Darren Fletcher and Michael Stewart as exampls. Stewart didnt make it like many dont. Fletcher did and was a top quality player. If we had many other like Fletcher playing in top 4 teams we would be at every major championship. Players who stay in Scotland past the age of 21 will not take us forward nomatter how much "game time" they get.

EU law doesnt allow for that. The only rule that we could put in plce would be for non EU players which isnt really a big issue for us. On your 1st point you ask why the government should fund this and not the clubs. As you have correctly pointed out clubs are commercial enterprises. Therefore they will do whats best for themselves and not the game as a whole. If a club can have success (in whatever way is deemed success for their club) by signing ready made players then why would they invest that money in a youth system that may not pay off, wont pay off for years ahead or only pay off for the game as a whole. The same commercial enterprises choose who runs and hiw our game is run so the same self interest mindset is deployed. Just look at the fixture argument. People know a bigger top league might be better long term but clubs know visits from the Old Firm bring in much more money so self interest keeps the current system in place. The reason the government should get involved is they are inpartial. Football is our national sport and run properly has huge heath benefits, ecconmic benefits and brings about a feel good factor which boosts self esteem. It filters through society. If Scotland was producing top players at the top of their field then other proffessions and normal people get the belief they can do the same and the country goes from being "we cant" to "we can" nomatter the question.

Collins at Monaco and Lambert at Dortmund? Thats right at the 20 year point though. I really do think this is our issue. We are so worried and critical when players leave Scotland young because they never go on to become anything. We would rather they got "game time" in a league where they will learn very little and at best become decent players. Take Naismith as an example. When he was a teenager he went on trial at Arsenal. Should he have went there he most likely wouldnt have made it however if he did make it he would have made it big. What he is now is a run of the mill decent player. You could repeat that example 100 times with our players.

Over the past 20 years we have had loads of decent players. What we havent had though is european class players. Over that time we have had 1 regular at a top 4 club in a major league. That being Darren Fletcher who is a defensive player. Would be interesting to look at the rest of Europes smaller nations and compare over same time period. Even at the moment Wales have 2 and off the top of my head they have had at least 2 more. Our lack of ability to take our decent players and make them better is our problem. There are many factors in that. One being we have 2 huge clubs in a poor league who take alot of our better players, another is a lack of professonalism in our mentality. Until we change that we wont qualify for another tournament.

As it stands McGinn will be playing at the same level this year as he did last year. Even of he moves it certainly wont be to the EPL where our 2 starting centre mids play. Fletcher played and captained every game in the EPL and McArthur was key at Palace. So thats he standard. Brown playing just in Scotland is below and the likes of McGinn and Christie are most certainly below. Griffith has had chances. He went to play in England and failed. S Fletcher went to play in England and has mainly been a success. Alternatives to S Fletcher are people who have done well at that level. So that gives us Naismith and McCormack. I agree we need to freshen things up but for me thats certain positions where our current players are starting to lack game time. Ie Patterson for Hutton. Phillips / Burke etc for Maloney.

McGinn plays in the Scottish Championship, gauld not playing 1st team football and christie nowhere near starting 11 for Celtic. Im all for using new or younger players but they have to be either better than we already have or next in line for a player who is in decline / not playing reguarly. Ie Patterson for Hutton. Just playing new young guys will take us nowhere if these guys arent playing at a decent level. If you arent good enough to get into a poor Celtic team how are you going to fair against England and Slovakia. Also who those who keep slating Steven Fletcher. Only Naismith and McCormack are credible alternatives. Griffiths is scoring goals but in much lesser league. He failed in England, has done nothing in Europe and nothing for Scotland. His movement is horrible, doesnt have international pace and simply isnt anywhere near the level required.

If the players were being attacked then yes.

Honestly not trying to be arsey. Was just trying to answer those that were saying any rangers fan on the pitch were automatically guilty. If a fan came on, ran straight to a player being attqcked, three one punch or pushed the attacker away then would be covered legally under self defence. Do i think thats what happend? No.

And I could be wrong as i dont do civil law but im pretty certain circuit courts are mainly England and Wales and never for criminal, they are civil for things like small claims.

No its wrong. Offences of this nature arent heard in the jp court so your honour is wrong. Also i suggest you go and look up what self defence is. Its a defence. Mitigation is something completely different. Quite happy to discuss other elements of law that you are unaware of though if you want to continue.

Given the likely circumstances id imagine you are correct. I was purely raising it in responce to those saying any rangers fan on the pitch was automatically guilty. As i said earlier if i was at a Scotland game and fans were attacking Scotland players id be tempted to protect them. Obviously thats where id stop though and not run round throwing punches at anything in green.

Well actually it is. The only court where your honour is used is the jp court and an offence of this nature isnt allowed to be heard in a jp court. Getting off topic though. I am purely pointing out that some Rangers fans may have a legal defence for being on the pitch as plently have asked why they were there. In reality id expect the vast majority to be on the pitch for other reasons and they should be dealt with accordingly.

I think you will find thats exactly what it is. Self defence of another. The defence of another under attack. It matters not whether its your job or not. As long as the person only comes to the aid of big lee and then doesnt go attacking others legally he is ok. And when trying to be smart also try and be correct. Its my lord in Scotland.

Any Hibs fan who crossed the halfway line into the Rangers end have no reason to be there. None of their players were at that part of the pitch and therefore a reasonable inference can be made that at the very least they were goading the opposition fans. This in itself could amount to criminal behaviour. As for those who ask why Rangers fand were on the pitch. If the reports are correct and players were getting attacked then self defence of another is a legal thing. Obviously some may be on looking for a fight etc but if you are looking at it from a police perspective what you have is all hibs fans over the halfway line with a case to answer, any hibs fan attacked a player with a case to answer and no defence and any rangers fan on the pitch with a possible defence in law subject to their conduct. Ive got to say that if i was at a scotland game and i say scotland players getting attacked on the pitch i would be tempted to go and protect them. Obviously again any rangers fan seen attacking a hibs fan nowhere near a rangers player also has no defence.

I believe that Celtic and Aberdeen would win the Portugese 1st division but that the style of football they played wouldnt be inferior in terms of technical ability. That playing a certain way can only take you so far and for a player to go right to the top he needs technical ability and live like an athlete. I think the Portugese 1st division is a better league in that regard than any division in Scotland and therefore is a better place for young players to develop.

Portugal 1st div is a better level than the spfl though. Especially from a technical perpective. Gauld was saying he is miles behind the other players in terms of technical ability and he is one of our more technically gifted players.

Less players break through at the top clubs but the ones that do have a much higher chance of being European class. Thats the standard of player we need. Over the past 15 years we have probably had 1 and thats Darren Fletcher. There is zero point in having 20 players capable of playing in Scotland. Our best players play for the Old Firm then move to lower level EPL sides. We need to flood europes top clubs with youth players and hope a cpl have what it takes to break through.

All leagues can have poor and boring games. This is a seperare issue from the quality of the players. The fact remains that our best talent struggle to make the step up to other leagues whether that be in England with the Championship or the EPL or an example like Portugal. Gauld was one of our most exciting technical players and by his own admission he is years behind the players in Portugal technically. The Spl has some exciting games but so does the English conference and nobody would suggest we should be picking our international players from there. If any player in Scotland was viewed as being a very good player then he wouldnt be playing in Scotland due to the amount of money foreign teams have.

Why is that a bit strange? Im not saying that there should be a blanket rule but more often than its a sound policy. In general better players play in better leagues. So why not picked the best players? Both the EPL and Championship have a far superior standard of players so the bulk of our team should come from there. Too often a player looks great in Scotland but turns out to not make the mark. Stevie May one of the more recent examples. In the same way a player does nothing down south. Cant get a game then comes up here. Plays for Celtic and looks amazing and all of a sudden they are a player. Commons and Griffiths being classic examples.

Put him in the Sunderland side and he wouldnt make the bench. Just as he didnt make the bench for Wolves, even when they dropped down to the Championship and if i remember league 1. How much would he cost atm. Say 6 million at a push. Yet not 1 EPL or Championship club is interested despite that being pocket change for them. We need to get real to move forward.