jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Nobody but the players and management will know the real reasons why we didn't qualify. Tactics, team spirit, ability, stamina, bottle, consistency....the list is endless about what is required for a team as a whole to win and subsequently qualify. I think we are decades behind grassroots with local kids in comparison to other nations. A lot of them have regular quality coming through where for some reason, we don't really have the 'wow' youth progressing. Money an issue ? Do we as a country put enough into development for youth ? I don't know, anyone else ? A subject that was raised to me is the lack of youth progression due to the amount of foreign players playing in the leagues ? Is that an issue ? If there was a cap on this would that help ? I don't know. Does anyone see a positive future for our national team ? One things for sure, following Scotland brings every form of emotion available to a human ! Still love it Edited January 3, 2016 by jock strap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotsgary2 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Jock I respect your opinions on here. Money and grass roots obviously a problem. But I can probably bet that Wales and certainly N.I spend less than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Jock I respect your opinions on here. Money and grass roots obviously a problem. But I can probably bet that Wales and certainly N.I spend less than us. There's countless problems mate, buggered if I can solve it ! My points are open to discussion Your probably right about Wales and N.I., but they had an easier group than us this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotsgary2 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 There's countless problems mate, buggered if I can solve it ! My points are open to discussion Your probably right about Wales and N.I., but they had an easier group than us this time U right they had easier groups........... As did Albania and the rest of them. Sadly iam running out of excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm sadly getting to acceptance now rather than excuses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Yeah I know. The point of my post was more just that it's a bit daft to contribute simply by saying "we weren't good enough". That's a bit like Rossy's "Neil Doncaster is a cock" post. :-) Okay, the players aren't good enough and the management wasn't good enough to get a better level of performance out of the team. I don't mean that as a criticism of either the players or the management, its just the sad reality of where we are. The only area in the team we have players of the quality to do well is the goalkeepers. In attack and defence we are substandard, if we had a Robbie Keane or Shane Long up front we might have done better. The midfield is just about okay, albeit a lot of the players are of the more workmanlike type and there is precious little flair. The midfield however isn't good enough to compensate for the weakness in defence or attack. To me a lot of it is about attitude and the mental side of things. I don't see many players with a winning mentality and more importantly I just don't see any leaders whatsoever in our starting lineup. The reason that's it important - probably more important than anything - is that you keep going to the final whistle and you don't give up when things go against you. To me the ROI are a pretty average team and on paper aren't any better than we are. One one hand you can say "Jammy bastards, getting a last minute equaliser in Germany" but why did they get that equaliser. Firstly they were still in the game and secondly they had the attitude to keep going to the final whistle. We were still in the game in Dortmund at 2-1 but I don't recall us throwing the kitchen sink at it in the last ten minutes to try and get an equaliser, instead we seemed kind of happy to get some sort of honourable defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotsgary2 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 We were still in the game in Dortmund at 2-1 but I don't recall us throwing the kitchen sink at it in the last ten minutes to try and get an equaliser, instead we seemed kind of happy to get some sort of honourable defeat. Why did Mulgrew get sent off them... We were well going for it disagree mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Why did Mulgrew get sent off them... Because he's an idiot. Proves my point about attitude and mental strength Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotsgary2 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Because he's an idiot. Proves my point about attitude and mental strength Still not agreeing sorry. Not sure about Mulgrew but from what I saw they were giving there all. Agree with your other points though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 but from what I saw they were giving there all. Dare I say that this just proves we are not good enough ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 As posted here already our players PROBABLY not good enough ??? I tend to agree until we see Northern Ireland qualifying.... Why did they ? Better players doubt it. No it was team spirit generated by the Manager and coaching staff. Northen Ireland qualified as they drew Greece as number 1 seeds. The Greeks imploded finishing below Faroe Islands in their group. NI are average and no better than us. Goodluck to them though they still had to win their games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boynze Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It is down to.mental strength pure and simple. We cannot win under pressure. This has been our main weakness for 40years or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 True enough Brian, if ye dinna win, ye dinna qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 To me a lot of it is about attitude and the mental side of things. I don't see many players with a winning mentality and more importantly I just don't see any leaders whatsoever in our starting lineup. The reason that's it important - probably more important than anything - is that you keep going to the final whistle and you don't give up when things go against you. I think this is the crux of our problem. Campaign after campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanpar Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 It is a strange one. It is easy to say we weren't good enough and on the match days where we dropped points to the lower seeds we certainly weren't. However, in those qualification campaigns we have beaten Croatia home and away, drawn with Germany, beaten France home and away. However, we have drawn with the Faroes, lost to Lithuania, Belarus and Georgia and drawn with Moldova! It's crazy stuff. I think a lot of it is to do with attitude. When we play those so called weaker teams we seem to freeze and are not able to beat them whereas other teams similar to us are able to overcome these teams. I think we should be playing those sort of teams away from home in friendlies until we manage to get it right. Moldova away, Belarus away, Estonia away, Latvia away, Montenegro away, Azerbaijan away. When the players start moaning about going to these places in November and March the reason is simple! Start delivering against them in qualification and we wont need to in the future. If we want to start qualifying again or at least make the play offs then 12 points v the bottom 2 teams are a minumum requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Exactly. Which is why it is so frustrating as the professionals who represent us should be playing out their skins every minute of every match. It's like they do not have the passion we have, nor the commitment at times. I would chop ma swingers off for the chance to stand in our strip representing our country, they seem to forget the honour that they should have in doing this when called upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It is a strange one. It is easy to say we weren't good enough and on the match days where we dropped points to the lower seeds we certainly weren't. However, in those qualification campaigns we have beaten Croatia home and away, drawn with Germany, beaten France home and away. However, we have drawn with the Faroes, lost to Lithuania, Belarus and Georgia and drawn with Moldova! It's crazy stuff. I think a lot of it is to do with attitude. When we play those so called weaker teams we seem to freeze and are not able to beat them whereas other teams similar to us are able to overcome these teams. I think we should be playing those sort of teams away from home in friendlies until we manage to get it right. Moldova away, Belarus away, Estonia away, Latvia away, Montenegro away, Azerbaijan away. When the players start moaning about going to these places in November and March the reason is simple! Start delivering against them in qualification and we wont need to in the future. If we want to start qualifying again or at least make the play offs then 12 points v the bottom 2 teams are a minumum requirement. I don't think playing friendlies will make much difference if the problem is mental, they won't come with the same pressure of expectation. Tbilisi was a "must win" game if ever there was one and we flopped. When do we ever get a result when it really matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 When do we ever get a result when it really matters? Struggling with that one. How sad is that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanpar Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 I don't think playing friendlies will make much difference if the problem is mental, they won't come with the same pressure of expectation. Tbilisi was a "must win" game if ever there was one and we flopped. When do we ever get a result when it really matters? That is true but some of the games where we have dropped points have not been so called must wins. We dropped points away to the Faroes and Lithuania early on the the campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 That is true but some of the games where we have dropped points have not been so called must wins. We dropped points away to the Faroes and Lithuania early on the the campaign. The Faroes game in 2002 is a great case in point. Vogts put out a team that was all over the place in the first half and we were lucky not two be three down at half time rather than two. It was down to Paul Lambert and Barry Ferguson getting a hold of the game and inspiring a comeback through sheer force of character. That was a great example of the leadership I'm talking about which has been lacking for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock strap Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 That is true but some of the games where we have dropped points have not been so called must wins. We dropped points away to the Faroes and Lithuania early on the the campaign. Every game is a must win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanpar Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Every game is a must win. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Not to be picky but it's slightly misleading to say that if we had beaten Georgia in 2007 we'd have finished second and qualified. After we lost to Italy, France ended up with a dead rubber against Ukraine which they drew. If they had needed to win, there's every chance they might have. We'll never know. Also if we'd finished 2nd in our WC2010 group would we have been eliminated as worst runners up, like Norway?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastiebeastie Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Only kept 3 clean sheets in the 10 qualification matches. Plus in the 8 games outwith Gib we lost the opening goal in 6 of those 8 matches. Pretty damning stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanpar Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Also if we'd finished 2nd in our WC2010 group would we have been eliminated as worst runners up, like Norway?... If we had beaten Macedonia we would have been on 13 points and made the play offs at the expense of Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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