Que Sera Sera

I'm on 12 points, which puts me just inside the top 3000. The Ullevaal holds 28000. We normally get the whole end when we play Norway, which is around about 3000 if I remember correctly from 2005 and 2009. The stadium in Belgrade is 55000 I think. Do we not get 10%? I think your group and I will be ok for either Norway or Serbia, if we beat Israel of course.

Why can’t ye get typhoons in Moscow?

Best thing about the game last night was the wee toddler dancing in a kilt with nae top on at the front of the E section stand. Did anybody manage to get a video of it? I’m sure the wee boy will eventually grow up and not do such things. Hang on, maybe not 🤔😂

You sound like trouble.

My surmusing of this thread tells me to bring either: a currency card, Euros or English notes. Can anybody tell me if I should think any differently in Kosovo and Montenegro?

Watch out for Trauco, possibly the best left back in the World.

I think McLeish isn't a bad choice, but Steve Clarke would've been better as would sticking with Strachan. Looking at McLeish's reign: -Terrible performance at home to Georgia and very lucky to win --Not too bad away to Italy but comfortably beaten -2-0 win in the Faeroes although they hit the woodwork twice if I remember correctly -3-1 win at home to Lithuania. We played better against Lithuania under Strachan -1-0 win in Paris when we had one shot on goal and got absolutely battered -3-1 win at home to Ukraine, probably the only excellent performance McLeish had, although we did play well at home to Italy as well -2-0 defeat in Georgia -2-1 defeat at home to Italy In contrast, under Strachan I thought that Georgia and Slovakia away were the only really bad performances in the last two campaigns. I'm fully aware that it's results that count and not performances, but performances indicate what is to come in the future and if the team is progressing or not. I saw more progression under McLeish than under Smith although that wouldn't be difficult, but I saw much more progression under Strachan. I saw a Scotland team that are finally comfortable in possession, that attack the opposition sometimes, at Wembley we actually pressed a team and away from home at that. I also saw Scotland remain unbeaten in 6 competitive games for the first time since Craig Brown qualified us for our last finals. What do we do? Sack the manager. Regan took that decision but he didn't have much choice, given the impatience and criticism of a large part of the Tartan Army. People calling McLeish disloyal really have a cheek given that they call for the manager to get sacked after a couple of bad results. Be careful what you wish for.

Or the bar with the mad dancing sailor?

Trying to decide where to fly home from on the Monday. Anybody been to Palanga or Klaipeda?

I don't think you watched that game. Totally agree that it was a terrible result. You've got to beat Lithuania at home and probably away as well if you're gonna qualify. Don't agree about the performance though, we created plenty of chances in that game. I reckon we played worse when we beat them 1-0 and 3-1 at Hampden. The only two truly terrible competitive performances of Strachan's reign were away to Georgia and Slovakia. True but how good will it be when we do finally qualify again! We've never got out of a group at a finals. Scrapping to qualify for tournaments would now be seen as a major success, as it would've been had we ever got of the group when we used to qualify. True but against Germany, Iceland, Lithuania and Faeroes teams who were all probably worse than they are now. Germany and Iceland were certainly much worse. Nah we could do without losing a 3rd play-off in-a-row thanks

Anybody who uses the word rocket doesn't know much about anything including fitba.

Just looking at the group again, we're only likely to finish level with Slovenia if they beat Slovakia. If they also beat Lithuania but lost at Wembley and drew with us, that'd give them 18. If we win the next 3, a draw with them would also give us 18.

If Slovakia don't beat Slovenia, then how many we score against Malta could potentially be very important should we finish level with Slovenia.

Goal difference against Malta WILL COUNT for the purposes of finishing 2nd in the group but WON'T COUNT for the purposes of avoiding being the worst 2nd place. Slovakia have got a far superior goal difference to us, so it's only going to be an issue if we finish joint second with Slovenia. If Slovakia beat Slovenia, there's no chance of that happening. If Slovakia beat Slovenia, we need to win ALL 4 games to finish 2nd. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't at least one group with less than 20 points or 14 points when you subtract the 6 points versus the bottom team. Even if we do finish joint worst 2nd place on points, no potential second place has as bad a goal difference as us and I think we're highly unlikely to make it up v Lithuania/Slovakia/Slovenia with 2 of those away and the home game being against one of the best counter attacking team in the Euros.

-If Slovakia beat Slovenia, they'll also beat Malta, which'd give them at least 18. Slovakia have got a much better goal difference than us, meaning we'd need to win all 4 games to get 2nd. -If Slovakia and Slovenia draw, then we can afford to draw with Slovakia, as long as we win the other 3 games and Slovakia lose at Wembley. Taking 10 points with the draw coming in Slovenia would also be enough, as long as Slovakia don't win at Wembley. -If Slovenia win in Slovakia, they'll likely beat Lithuania as well, although 10 points would still be enough for us with a scenario where we end up level on points with Slovenia and it going to goal difference. If we don't beat Lithuania, 3 wins from the last 3 would might well still be enough, although we'd only have 17/18 points. Looking at the likely points totals of the other 2nd places and the remaining fixtures, I can see the 2nd place in 6 groups getting to at least 20 points. I think it's between our group, Denmark/Montenegro and Northern Ireland/Czech Republic for the worst 2nd place. I can see whichever team finishes 2nd in both of those groups taking 18 points, with a small chance one will finish on less. Having said all that, I can see Slovakia beating Slovenia, which would mean we'd need to win all 4

Just because someone's a success for one team, doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a success for another, e.g. Vogts won Euro 96, Walter Smith never did anything in Europe in his first spell in charge of Rangers, McLeish flopped in England. Yes if they're not better than Scottish born players, definitely. I would hate someone like Michael O'Neill to be Scotland manager. Being hard to beat under Craig Brown left us in a hell of a mess in the Vogts years. It'd be one step forward and three steps back. Short-termism is exactly why Scottish football is in such a mess and unfortunately most of the fans are too short-sighted to understand that. Not that difficult to imagine. You seriously wouldn't be surprised if we don't beat Malta at home?, not that I think it's a foregone conclusion, Liechtenstein reminds me of that.

Agree about people from other countries not respecting Scotland. Most know that we havnae qualified in ages, even if they cannae be as specific as '98. Many even think we're a rugby nation because we beat Japan, USA and Samoa. A foriegn mate said that even Finland were better than Scotland a few years ago, quite an insult! No English manager thanks. It's bad enough having hunners of English players and fans. I wanted Nevio Scala to get the job instead of Vogts. To be fair, he was probably the best we had in terms of offering something a bit different/producing something out of nothing. He was pacey as well. Vogts didn't even put him on in the end. Englishmen are bad enough at managing England thanks very much. If Strachan goes, I'd be happy with McInnes, Moyes or Clarke out of those. You seem to be ignoring the blindingly obvious. Ireland, Wales and Northern Ireland have all done well recently with one of their own as manager.

I wasn't trolling pal. Fair enough, I've got more time for somebody who'll go to the rest of the games than someone who'll boycott them, a boycott which will be over should we somehow be in with a decent chance going into the last couple of games. Having said that, I just don't understand why you're going when you say that we've got absolutely no chance of qualifying. Personally I've been to plenty of meaningless games/friendlies, but I can't say I get overly excited about them. Call me disloyal, but I'm not even sure I'll bother with such games in the future. Lots of people on here rightly talk about accepting failure/celebrating failure/glorious failure with Scotland. To my mind, what you and many others are doing is worse than that: accepting defeat before we've even failed. P.S. I won't stoop to your level and call you an idiot, even though you are as faceless as I am Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Lagerback hadn't achieved any heroics with Iceland at that time, Vogts had been an abject failure, leaving a mere 5 years before 2009 and Levein had had an outstanding record as Dundee United manager. If and when Strachan leaves, I'd go with a Scot again. Vogts and Paul Le Guen are two prime examples of foreigners just not understanding Scottish fitba. I cannae think of too many success stories either. Maybe a few but I think that the national team is a harder job and comes with much more pressure, with the possible exceptions of managing either half of the OF. Rainer Bonhof managed the U21s for a good few years and there was that Dutch guy as well, Mark Wotte.

You'd rather we didn't qualify?

Double Post

By that logic, Slovakia won't be good enough to qualify either if we beat them at Hampden. We beat Ireland at home and would've beaten Poland at home were it not for a 94th minute goal. It's not exactly unthinkable that we could beat Slovenia and Slovakia at home. I think we were terrible in Slovakia, although I don't think we played that badly against Lithuania and definitely didn't play that badly against England. Are you touting Darren Fletcher to be our next coach? I'm not making any predictions. I don't think we'll qualify but I'll always hope that Scotland will qualify as long as there's a chance. Presumably you and the others who say we've got no chance won't be going to the rest of the games?

I think 19 points will almost certainly give us 2nd place, which means 5 wins out of 6. 18 or 17 points might be enough though. The way I see it, if we can't beat Malta at home, we can forget it, whilst realistically we need to beat Slovenia & Slovakia at home. That leaves us needing 6 points from the England, Lithuania & Slovenia (away) games, although 5 or even 4 points from these 3 games might just be enough. I don't think we'll do it, but I'm certainly not giving up hope, unlike others on here. More than possible. As for avoiding being the worst 2nd place, we can worry about that, if we're still in contention going into the last two games. Looking at previous campaigns, the worst second place in groups of 6 have finished on anything between 16 and 20 points. I'd imagine that 18 would probably be enough. I don't agree. 1 point from the next two games and we could still win our last 4 potentially and get 2nd place. If we only lose one more game, we could handle it being either against England or Lithuania. Unfortunately yes. Have you ever heard of a concept called the counter attack?

It's the manager's job to give instructions. Wilmots actually sat very deep and dictated play, which just shows how negative we were, defending deep with a man more.

Is that the same Craig Brown whose team sat back and let Marc Wilmots dictate play at Hampden as Belgium came from 2 goals down with a man less?

At least 7. Marshall and Andy Robertson would get in that team. Not sure about any others. D Fletcher maybe. Would you play with just the one striker in that case?