Freeedom

If I believed that the SNP would actually campaign for independence or in fact had any sort of plan to hold an independence referendum then I might vote for them. But as I keep saying and as their record over the last seven years suggests they have no intention whatsoever to campaign for independence so It's not a pro indy vote. Don't try and guilt trip me with "letting a tory in" nonsense, the onus is on the SNP to win MY vote, not for me to vote for them just to keep out a tory. This is exactly what I am talking about when it comes to arrogance.

I'm not putting drug deaths, health or education ahead of indy. All of those issues are very important to me, I am a left leaning socialist. But I am also a nationalist who believes that the best way to address all of those problems is through independence. To me the SNP are failing on the argument of independence because they don't even want to address it, but they are also failing as a government by lurching and more and more to the right. If I thought that voting for the SNP was actually a pro indy vote then I'd vote for them like I have done in the past. But you are making the same mistake that the SNP are in thinking that my vote can be taken as carte blanche just because I support independence. The only way for me to let the SNP know how disappointed I am with them is to not vote for them, it is the only leverage I have and I'm going to use it. They have become arrogant in power and think that they can treat voters like me however they want without repercussion because I support independence. I'm sorry, but they can't keep dangling that carrot without delivering anything at all. I don't want to see an independent Scotland model itself on a neoliberal tax heaven like Ireland, I think we can be better than that. The SNP's vision of what an independent Scotland would look like makes my stomach churn. But more importantly they don't even have a plan to get there. That's why it is so important that we have a pro independence party like Alba to hold them to account, to offer a competing vision because so much of the general public don't understand that the SNP and independence are not synonymous. There are four pro independence parties in catalunya and with the Greens, SNP and Alba hopefully we can make it the number one issue on the political agenda again. My decision is personal, if others feel they can stomach a vote for the SNP I would encourage them to vote for the party, but at this point it's a no go from me. There are far too many significant failures for me to encourage them further with my vote.

I don't know who I will vote for if anyone on the main vote. But I will give my list vote to Alba despite the fact that I think Alex Salmond is a complete sleeze just because they are making independence their number one priority and will push for EFTA rather than full EU membership.

You make a lot of good points and of course there is merit for the SNP in winning the election by convincing as many voters as possible to back them but I don't think it's possible to be all things to all people. The party had a mandate to hold a referendum in the last parliament because the material change in circumstances occurred in 2016 but they didn't push for it. In fact since the 19th of September 2014 the party pretty much refused to engage on the issue of independence at all whilst acting like they have a dictatorial role over the constitutional issue. It's been seven years completely wasted when we could have used that time to build up momentum, learn the lessons from 2014 and brought forward a new generation of indy supporters. Why did we stop campaigning? By being the party in government for 14 years and by trying to be all things to all people the party has moved sharply to the right and has been inundated with careerist politicians who couldn't give a toss about independence one way or another. I am not convinced that under any circumstance the SNP will be ready for a referendum during this parliament and I dont think Nicola Sturgeon wants the headache of running another independence campaign. WHY OH WHY are we not making the case that independence is the best way to recover from the pandemic? it is a complete open goal but the SNP seem completely scared to even make such an obvious argument. I won't be voting for the SNP, 1) because I don't believe they have any intention of campaigning or getting another referendum 2) Because of the absolute shambles that is the drug crisis in Scotland 3) the "4 nations approach" and the 10,000 deaths that happend as a consequence of their mismanagement of the pandemic 4) EU membership, and the fact that they wont even considering offering the people of Scotland a vote on the issue 5) Pete Wishart, Stewart McDonald, Alyn Smith, Derek McKay, Angus Robertson, Humza Youseff and every other total wanker in the party Among a lot of other reasons. I've only ever voted for the SNP in Scotland but I wont ever give this administation another shot, they cant take my vote as an independence supporter for granted and they wont be getting it.

Really, why? The party refuse to even talk about independence and keep kicking the issue further down the road. They haven't learned any of the lessons from 2014 and still intend to push this ridiculous currency union policy. Not one of the SNP leaflets I've had through my door even mentions independence. This is before even getting to the debate about EU membership, whether they will actually give Scots a say on that issue and if EU membership actually constitutes being an independent country.

Does anyone here actually believe that the SNP intend to deliver another referendum in the next parliament? Because based on that debate Nicola has absolutely no intention to even campaign for independence nevermind deliver another referendum

Long time no see

Thanks, can I have the award now ? #####

I'm glad you are trying to sort it out, for the sake of your wife and kids as much as anything else, I think you should cut your friends loose because one way or another they will get you doing a line again but if you think otherwise I believe you. A dad in prison is not a good look and if thats where you end up or you lose your job, I can't say that you didn't deserve it. There's a lot at stake for you I hope you make the right decisions. I don't care less for point scoring, I care about right and wrong. If he wasn't a Dad I couldn't care less what he does but the welfare of his kids are at stake and they don't deserve it. He needs a boot up the baws not coddled from you.

where did I say that ? I said it is up to him to sort himself out, nobody brought on his problems but himself.

Yeah sorry, I don't feel too compassionate for people who do coke and start fights with strangers when they have family at home. stupid.

I'm about the same age as you, i'm 31 I don't have any kids and I've never been an addict so I don't know what that's like but i'm going to be quite blunt with you anyway. I think you are a idiot, but I think you acknowledge as much yourself. If you are serious about getting off Cocaine then you need to cut contact with your friends, they are clearly no good for you. Your responsibility is to your kids and wife and if being around your mates is compromising your family life then you need to get shot of them right away, no if's no buts. You are a 32 year old man and if one of them calls you up and asks to go out for a few drinks you have to be honest with them and tell them that you are not interested, if they are truly your friends then they will understand and if not then em. Move on. I think you know what's important in life and going out and getting pissed and involved with fights is not one of them, it's up to you.

Are you suggesting that Corbyn ignore the result of the referendum and should have encouraged his MP's to vote against the will of the people ?

I see this place hasn't changed much.

This is perfect, i'm delighted with the result. Step 1 of operation Freeedom

I'm not an OTB player, but i play online and i'm around 1600. That's cool that you compete, I would definitely like to get involved when I have a bit more time to do so.

I'm a chess fan and player. 85 is a good age RIP

I completely agree with you, Sturgeon is a total hypocrite but so are you for not backing independence for Scotland.

climate change.

Looking to move abroad hopefully when i finish my masters next month. Canada, Australia, down south, who knows ?

Do you not remember the recent referendum that the Greeks had that was overruled by their own government ? Their own government being the EU Well RIC was one facet of that, but you also had very prominent figures in the yes campaign like Dennis Canavan and Jim Sillars frequently make reference to independence being for the working class too. Maybe that's true ? I'm no tory but I think we did a fantastic job in losing them during the referendum, whether we llike it or not a substantial chunk of the electorate still vote for them.

The Yes campaign failed on several fronts and I was very critical of the way that the campaign was conducted in several ways. 1) The yes campaign didn't manage to seperate SNP policies from the issue of independence. It was not made clear enough that in an independent Scotland people did not need to vote for the SNP, if they didn't agree with the partys policies that was fine, people were free to vote for whatever party they wanted in an independent Scotland. The yes campaign/SNP didn't explain that the beauty and whole point of independence was that Scotland would get whatever democratically elected government that it wanted. A lot of people truely did not understand that having an independent country was nothing to do with any political party, that it was instead about their country and the principle of democracy. 2) (along the lines of point one) The currency issue was a complete farce. If there was one point that the unionists were correct about it was that Scotland would not be a proper independent currency whilst still in a currency union. We only need to look at what the people of Greece are going through to see that. Yes the relative GDP of England and Scotland are quite similar, but isn't one of the main arguments for independence that we would have to see our economy grow stronger as an independent country. We could have a very strong currency as an independent country and the Greens were for it but their voice was drowned out by the SNP. 3) The yes campaign isolated Tory voters for no reason. over 400'000 people voted for the Tories in 2010 and we told them that an independent Scotland would not welcome them, in the end we lost the referendum by about that number of votes. Why did we tell these people they were not welcome in Scotland ? We should have been telling them that an independent Scotland could be whatever country that we wanted it to be, that there was room for a number of different voices and that they would be more clearly heard amongst 5 million scots as opposed to 60 million Brits. Independence was for everyone, not just those to the left. 4) The yes campaign isolated Middle class voters. We were frequently told that independence was "for the working class", as a strong yes supporter who is certainly middle class but whose family has come from a working class background i resented this argument because I always felt that independence was for me too. Nothing would ever have made me vote no, but i could easily see why someone from my background would be swayed towards voting no with all this rubbish about a yes vote being for the working class. Once again I feel that independence is for everyone in Scotland and the yes campaign did a bang up job of isolating nearly half the country. 5) The EU Although I don't think it cost too many votes in the referendum I think it is highly hypocritical of the SNP to have not potentially offered the people of Scotland a say on the issue of the EU. It is very presumptious of them to assume that the people of Scotland want to be a part of the EU despite what the polls say. Further more, I take the view that we are not a truely independent country as a member of the EU

Jim Fairlie was right.

With the advent of social media and the internet getting your message out has never been easier than before. Without the internet I don't think the referendum would have been nearly as close as it actually was, people can make their voices heard and governments HATE that, that's why they keep trying to censor us.

http://www.news.com.au/world/africa/islamic-extremist-attack-in-nigeria-named-the-deadliest-massacre-in-history/story-fnh81gzi-1227180726580 I'll just leave this here... Donny, i'll reply to your "points" later