The SFA should support the PFA at the FIFA Congress on 17th of May

[ScottishSportForPalestine]

2 hours ago, ally ross said:

The Syrian government killed footballer Abdul Baset al-Sarout along with hundreds of thousands of its own citizens.

The Iranian government imprisoned footballer Amir Nasr-Azadani, who it wanted to execute, for protesting in favour of women's rights in that country.

China persecutes tens of thousands of Uyghur citizens. Yet none of those who claim to care so much about Palestine ever demands sanction upon the football associations of these countries. It's only ever Israel they want to punish. And we all know why.

To allow this petition onto the TAMB's TA specific thread creates a dangerous precedent. It has no place here and should be removed.

Hi Ally, you make some very fair points, Scottish Sport for Palestine is part of Sport Against Genocide, which is also running campaigns to support other countries at the moment- it isn't just Palestine. The reason for promoting this specific campaign is because the PFA has specifically requested that the SFA endorse its proposal at the FIFA Congress in May. To be extremely clear, this does not mean that we don't support other countries or wouldn't support their proposals at FIFA Conventions. The idea that football is inherently dirty and should be left to rot is the very reason we want to work to change it.

I don't dispute any of the points that you make about Syria, China and Iran but I do disagree that the thread needs to be removed. As I clearly mention in the petition, travelling Scottish fans were the reason that the FIFA Fair Play Award was invented in 1987. This award in itself was not TA specific, it was awarded to Dundee United Fans. Nevertheless, TA fans (UEFA Fair Play Award winners in Stockholm 1992) and Celtic fans (FIFA Fair Play Award winners in Seville, 2003)  have since been awarded for their sporting behaviour and I do believe that there is a sense of justice and fair play that can be appealed to when talking to many Scottish people. There are dozens of athletes who have been murdered by the IDF, and dozens of sports facilities fully or partially destroyed, these are listed in our materials. I don't really understand what you mean by "It's only ever Israel they want to punish. And we all know why."? Israel is a colonial state. Palestinians have been brutally forced from their lands. The Israeli destruction of Palestinian sport is actually in itself a genocidal act- genocide extends to the erasion of a culture and sport is the only place where Palestine is recognised internationally. Zionism is racism. Israel is conducting genocide and is targeting athletes specifically. Football does not occur in a bubble. None of these facts are debatable.

[wanderer]

Israel are due to play one of the 3 out of the 4 Asian Cup u21 winners at the Olympics football games this summer, and majority of them will be from Muslim nations (Qatar and Saudi Arabia look set to qualify)

Short term would it not be better putting pressure on them?

Also, by same token, should there not be a similar campaign against Syria, and even more pressure put on sanctions against Russia, given al-Assad and Putin have been raising Yarmouk Refugee Camp in Syria to the ground, which is the "home" to over 150,000 Palestinian refugee's?

[LoganRoy]

@ScottishSportForPalestine genuine question. 

Given the UK governments role in arming Israel, do you have similar petitions to bar the home nations from participating in similar sporting events?  We're culpable in what is happening there and through the world in other conflicts. 

I get the sentiment on this, but you're potentially punishing 'persons' involved in sport who either disagree or have no input in to the war itself; and yes I get the irony that Palestinians (innocents) can't stop this either. 

It may be helpful to drop in the links to this petition, along with the other conflicts petitions mentioned above?  I'm sure you've got them to hand.

 

[ScottishSportForPalestine]

On 4/25/2024 at 9:39 AM, LoganRoy said:

@ScottishSportForPalestine genuine question. 

Given the UK governments role in arming Israel, do you have similar petitions to bar the home nations from participating in similar sporting events?  We're culpable in what is happening there and through the world in other conflicts. 

I get the sentiment on this, but you're potentially punishing 'persons' involved in sport who either disagree or have no input in to the war itself; and yes I get the irony that Palestinians (innocents) can't stop this either. 

It may be helpful to drop in the links to this petition, along with the other conflicts petitions mentioned above?  I'm sure you've got them to hand.

 

Hi LoganRoy, apologies for the late reply, I have limited capacity at the moment given the build up to the FIFA Congress. Regarding your comment on home nations, I do agree fully that the UK Government has implicated itself, along with many EU governments, and the US government by its continued and prolonged arms sales to Israel. We have been clear in our communications that the Scottish Minister has called for a stop in arms sales to Israel, which has been at odds with communications in Westminster. This does not remove complicity.

 

Nevertheless, it is worth pointing out that military conscription in Israel is mandatory, and there are a number of players who are serving soldiers who play for Israeli national teams. Further to this, as I have specifically mentioned and as is outlined in the letter, the IDF has consistently targeted sport as a tactic in its genocide to try to wipe out Palestinian athletes and Palestinian sports grounds. Erosion of culture is considered a genocidal act. We have linked the names to 97 athletes in our letter but were informed by the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor that this number has risen to 188, 106 of whom are footballers. Once these names are released to us, we will be updating our letter accordingly.

 

We have also detailed how in up to 95% of bullet wound cases, the IDF has, historically, targeted the legs of Palestinians. This is a verified fact by aid agencies and doctors. This often results in amputations, many of which could be avoided if proper treatment were provided but Palestinians have had their hospitals bulldozed and medical staff and patients massacred and they are at the mercy of Israeli authorities, who consistently decline their exit permits. Children are particularly vulnerable when being fitted for prosthetic refits because they are constantly growing so this has devastating effects on their rehabilitation and independence. This is a disability rights crisis.

 

I understand you feel passionately about this, I simply do not have the capacity to respond to every message, and with respect, I do not debate disability and human rights violations. I certainly don’t debate basic child rights either. As per my original post, this petition is for those people who do support Palestinians and empathise with their right to self-identify and have access to their land, water and to be able to exercise their culture, including sport.

Regarding request for petitions, if you have been following us online you will see we have been pushing calls for FIFA to use its platform to support victims of genocide in the Congo and other countries: https://www.instagram.com/p/C5GFCqgixhN/?img_index=1. We have been pushing existing petitions for calls for Arsenal to drop Visit Rwanda as its sponsor. These are being constantly linked in our stories: https://chng.it/25Px79sdbW. We are anti-colonial, so I do not believe there is a need for us to recreate these petitions. We use our platform to promote existing material and to give a platform to Congolese and Sudanese people and to promote their sport-related protests, and any relief efforts. We are trying to extend this to other countries. I'm sure we could do this more, and I strive to do so. This is a long message, but I have tried to address your points, but will not be engaging in future debates on this.

[ScottishSportForPalestine]

On 4/25/2024 at 9:29 AM, wanderer said:

Israel are due to play one of the 3 out of the 4 Asian Cup u21 winners at the Olympics football games this summer, and majority of them will be from Muslim nations (Qatar and Saudi Arabia look set to qualify)

Short term would it not be better putting pressure on them?

Also, by same token, should there not be a similar campaign against Syria, and even more pressure put on sanctions against Russia, given al-Assad and Putin have been raising Yarmouk Refugee Camp in Syria to the ground, which is the "home" to over 150,000 Palestinian refugee's?

Hi Wanderer, thanks for input- I tried to get round most messages but I think I missed yours. There is also a wider campaign (widely signed) to ban Israel in other sports, including the Olympics, you can sign the petition here: https://internal.diem25.org/en/petitions/93?id=93 

The petition I shared is the only one that addresses the SFA specifically and was created because the SFA cited concern from fans as being a major factor in its decision to boycott Russia in 2022. We think the Scottish fans' voices matter and this puts specific pressure on the SFA and calls it to account to act progressively at the FIFA Congress and to be a leader on this issue. This can be signed here: https://www.change.org/p/the-scottish-football-association-must-ask-fifa-uefa-to-ban-israel 

Appreciate the input here and have take onboard your feedback. Our efforts right now are trying to target the Israeli government through sport given that its system of apartheid and genocide is what is driving Palestinian refugees out of Palestine in the first place. 90% of Palestinian's are internally displaced, and many externally as you mention. The only current proposal is to sanction Israel, as was put forth by the Palestine FA, hence this is what we are supporting. Please accept my apologies, if I can't respond due to capacity reasons.

Edited April 26 by ScottishSportForPalestine

[LoganRoy]

2 hours ago, ScottishSportForPalestine said:

Hi LoganRoy, apologies for the late reply, I have limited capacity at the moment given the build up to the FIFA Congress. Regarding yourbuild up on home nations, I do agree fully that the UK Government has implicated itself, along with many EU governments, and the US government by its continued and , olonged arms sales to Israel. We have been clear in our communications that the Scottish Minister has called for a stop in arms sales to Israel, which has been at odds with communications in Westminster. This does not remove complicity.

 

Nevertheless, it is worth pointing out that military conscription in Israel is mandatory, and there are a number of players who are serving soldiers who play for Israeli national teams. Further to this, as I have specifically mentioned and as is outlined in the letter, the IDF has consistently targeted sport as a tactic in its genocide to try to wipe out Palestinian athletes and Palestinian sports grounds. Erosion of culture is considered a genocidal act. We have linked the names to 97 athletes in our letter but were informed by the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor that this number has risen to 188, 106 of whom are footballers. Once these names are released to us, we will be updating our letter accordingly.

 

We have also detailed how in up to 95% of bullet wound cases, the IDF  as, historically, targeted the legs of Palestinians. This is a verified fact by aid agencies and doctors. This often results in amputations, many of which could be avoided if proper treatment were provided but Palestinians have had their hospitals bulldozed and medical staff and patients massacred and they are at the mercy of Israeli authorities, who consistently decline their exit permits. Children are particularly vulnerable when being fitted for prosthetic refits because they are constantly growing so this has devastating effects on their reh bilitation and independence. This is a disability rights crisis.

 

I understand you feel passionately about this, I simply do not have the capacity to respond to every message, and with respect, I do not debate disability and human rights violations. I certainly don’t debate basic child rights either. As per my original post, this petition is for those people who do support Palestinians and empathise with their right to self-identify and have access to their land, water and to be able to exercise their culture, including sport.

Regarding request for petitions, if you have been following us online you will see we have been pushing calls for FIFA to use its platform to support victims of genocide in the Congo and other countries: https://www.instagram.com/p/C5GFCqgixhN/?img_index=1. We have been pushing existing petitions for calls for Arsenal to drop Visit Rwanda as its sponsor. These are being constantly linked in our stories: https://chng.it/25Px79sdbW. We are anti-colonial, so I do not believe there is a need for us to recreate these petitions. We use our platform to promote existing material and to give a platform to Congolese and Sudanese people and to promote their sport-related protests, and any relief efforts. We are trying to ex, nd this to other countries. I'm sure we could do this more, and I strive to do so. This is a long message, but I have tried to address your points, but will not be engaging in future debates , can,  this.

I'll happily sign the petition.

I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't want to target the UK Gov't who are providing the guns/ammunition and other weapons or money to purchase these to Israel.

It would be great if you can share that petition to ban Scotland from the Euro's.  After all, Humza is (I need to refresh the news) currently a minority leading first minister and the people of Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

Thanks.

[ally ross]

A quick reminder, because you won't get it from the pro-Palestinian campaigner who, without apparent irony, accuses Israel of acts of genocide. A Scotsman called Bernard Cowan was one of an estimated 1,200 murdered by Hamas terrorists on October 7. Countless others were raped and over 200 taken hostage in Gaza, whom the IDF are now trying to rescue while fighting Hamas, a force that's dedicated to eradicating the world's own Jewish state.

And for the record, there is about as much chance of a pro-Palestinian lobby group criticising the Iranian government, or petitioning against it, as there is of Greg Taylor winning the Ballon d'Or.

Anyone need a spare ticket for the Hungary game? Think I've got a spare going for £131.67.  

 

 

[Grim Jim]

Not sure why you're posting numbers @ally ross.

[ger intae them]

….. like your attempt at pointing out the lack of awareness of irony ….. kind of ironic?
some pretty fucked up one sided views of the current shit show in gaza coming from both sides but you and the Israeli powers lack awareness of the other side’s innocents suffering…… unfortunately a clear sign of perpetual conflict.

maybe your paymasters forced you to say it?

anyway, I could be interested in your Hungary ticket, is it still available?