Diamond Scot

Im more excited by the likes of Conway and to a lesser extent Hardie than McBurnie and Brown but a big part of that is that as supporters we are always hoping the solution is just around the corner. That perhaps Conway will score for fun once he gets the call, something we know McBurnie and Brown wont do. We need to temper that with not just calling people up for the sake of it. One of Clarkes strengths has been the club feel, making call ups be earned etc. He doesnt tend to call players up who are just on a hot streak as that might only cover 1 set of fixtures in International terms. My position with McBurnie is that he was commited 1st time around when alot of other players werent. His performances werent good but also they werent stinking. He hit the woodwork 2 or 3 times and to that extent was abit unlucky he hasnt broken his duck. He also took and scored a vital penalty. He rightfully hasnt been called up in a while however is still one of the top 6 or 7 strikers we have and should his form improve and or we get either injuries or other players form drops off then he should still be considered for a call up. As supporters we are always wanting young players called up. We cant then dismiss a player for their entire career because they didnt seize the chance when they were called up when they were younger.

I totally agree, its a nonsence that shouldnt have been allowed to happen however rather than just blame the SFA / SPFL or OF, I prefer to look at what clubs could or should be doing to try and improve it. If teams still get money for their games being selected for TV in cup games then non OF clubs should be putting pressure on the authorities to insert a clause into the TV deals. Otherwise the OF are almost guarenteed to make extra money each round based purely on their fanbase and not the quality of the tie. I watched "Brawn" recently. The F1 documentary. Theres abit about all the teams coming together to wrestle control away from F1 and the FIA. In my opinion if the 10 non OF teams and maybe some of the top Championship teams like Dundee Utd etc formed a group and had a collective bargaining position then so much could be done to advance the game.

Unfortunetly the viewing figures will be significantly higher with only Celtic fans watching. (Or Rangers) Ultimately broadcasters run a business and in Scotland thats the model that works. When TV decides not to even bother showing the Edinburgh derby etc you know the writing is on the wall. Wont ever happen but its the authorites that should be influencing this. Make it part of the selling of the rights that only a certain number of games can involve the OF. Its the authorities that are meant to have the good of the overall game, not the broadcasters. Im not sure how it works with TV money anymore. Are clubs paid pro rata depending on which round they get to or are they still paid directly if their game is choosen to be on TV? If its the latter then its another thing non OF clubs so be banding together to pressure the authorities on.

Likely be a step too far but who knows. Should be a good crowd and possibly TV money.

A topic thats been talked about lots on here but started this thread to not derail others. Something needs to change in the mindset of Scottish football. Ive no idea what realistically can be done though. The "demands" on managers nowadays contributes to them not taking chances with younger players. Its got to the point of madness though. Other clubs are guilty aswell but taking the OF as an example of the issue. Rangers playing a part time side who arent pulling up any trees in the 4th division away from home. Full strength team put out. Only 2 youngsters on the bench. Neither get on despite Rangers being 3 nil up. Celtic playing a highland league side at home. Full strength side put out. (Possible centre back being the exception, Polish 22 year old). 2 youngsters put on but only when 4 nil up. If a manager cant trust a young player or 2 to start these games then when are they likely to be trusted to play? The size of the squads is defo an issue. If teams have 27 - 30 fully experienced players on decent wages then these players will expect to play in cup games. Even when being rotated. This leaves no room for younger players. Down in England clubs reguarly trust younger players in the league cup and early rounds of FA cup. Why is it so different up here? Problem isnt unique to OF but other clubs do tend to play youth although its probably out of neccesity rather than choice.

Called Airdrie beating St Johnstone when draw was made. Financially an away tie at one of the OF would be great in the next round but theres still a good few teams in the hat id fancy us giving a good game at home.

Damien Duff was signed for 17 million by Chelsea where he played 81 times and won 2 leagues. He played over 450 in one of the top leagues in Europe. We would have killed for a player of the calibre of Duff. Dennis Irwin is one of Man Utds all time full backs. Shay Given was a top class GK. John Oshea won 5 league titles and a european cup at Man Utd. Even Richard Dunne ans Seamus Coleman had really good careers in the EPL. We are only now starting to produce players who establish themselves at that level.

Id define elite the same as you. Players who have reguarly held down starting positions at the top clubs in the best leagues. Probably the big 6 in England. We have basically had Fletcher and Robertson. McTominay possibly falls into this catergory aswell. All our other players who have moved to top sides have failed to establish themselves. Even Fletcher and McTomminay were / are on the fringes on the main starting 11. Guys like Duff and and 2 Keanes were key players in successful sides. We are certainly getting better at producing players of a higher standard. Having a core group of players in the best leagues makes a huge difference. The successful ROI sides if the early 2000s had the elite players as above and then were littered with solid EPL players.

Im not saying its the only reason but it is a factor. Even with a good pitch, its alot harder to play patient passing build up football when the wind is howling, the rain is falling and its close to freezing. I dont like it but I can see why managers in Scotland opt for physical over technical. Summer football negates some of the positives of a physical style and makes a technical style more beneficial.

Totally agree however one thing thats often overlooked for the cause if this is when we play. In Scotland there is a very small window when both the pitches and weather are good. Most of the season is spent playing in the wind / rain or when the pitches have suffered from the cold or getting churned up. None of that is ideal for passing the ball around. I believe one of the many benefits of summer football would be a better style of football being adopted by managers. Managers are paid to win and currently the best chances of that are by getting the ball up the pitch asap.

Most European countries our size do produce elite players. Countries nearest to our population in order. Croatia, Ireland, Norway, Finland, Slovakia, Denmark, Bulgaria, Serbia, Switzerland. Only Finland havent really had any elite players playing in the last 20 years. Possibly Bulgaria. Elite being somebody who plays reguarly for one of the top 4 or 5 teams in Engalnd, Spain, Italy or Germany. Why do Ireland produce so many more elite players than Scotland? Thats probably the nearest we have to a country the size and culture of ours. Ireland ship pretty much all their players to England at the earliest opportunity and they have produced about 5 times the number of elite players than we have in the last 30 years.

This point only stands up if you have examples of the opposite happening. We dont produce elite players regardless of the route. The only guys to reguarly hold down a starting position at an elite club in the last 20 odd years are Fletcher and Robertson. As others have said, its different for every player, 1st team football is very important. I dont think anybody is saying its not important however just playing football will only take you so far. You need people to learn off and they are in much greater numbers at clubs in big leagues.

As much as its frustrating that we have to qualify through the strongest section, I view it like I do the champions league. The competition shouldnt be about having the best X number of teams in Europe / the world. Its meant to represent World football. Part of the reason why the Champions League has lost alot of appeal to me is that it now largely serves 4 leagues.

Im sorry but you are just wrong regarding top players for elite clubs. I randomly picked Bayern Munich and 7 out of their starting 11 in the Champions League came through at clubs playing in the top leagues. Now this will vary from club to club however its nowhere near the 80% you state. You say that elite clubs have youth setups because they can hoard players but thats not the question I asked. I asked why the clubs all play in the youth leagues. Up until this season they could buy as many players as they wanted and then just loan them out to clubs to get what you are saying is rhe best development route. So why werent they doing it. Why werent all the lower leagues and non elite leagues of Europe literally littered with players from the elite leagues? If thats the best way for players to develop why would any club not go down this route? Look at pretty much any sport and the countries that have the best setups, invest the most into coaching and technology etc tend to always get the best results. Take cycling just as an example. Every country in the world has access to bikes amd yet the UK consistently get gold medals. Why? Because we have the best facilites and coaches. Why would football be any different. For every Andy Robertson that drops down the leagues and gets game time there will be thousands who either drop out the game or never make it to any decent level. Being at a big club is not a guarentee of success however it does give you the best platform to fulfil your potential. This combined with a good loan move to get adult football is the ideal situation imo.

We havent produced top players regardless of what route they have taken. Fletcher and Robertson are our only really top players in the last 20 or so years. Both took very different routes. Im not sure your 80% estimate is anywhere near being accurate. Alot obviously depends on what country you grew up in. If you take the top 5 in last years ballon dor (if we are looking at the elite players). Messi, Mbappe and Rodri have only ever played in top leagues. Haaland and DeBrunye both played in their countries league before moving to a top league when still young. If youth football has little value then why does it exist. If all the top clubs believed that then why wouldnt they just sign players and send them out to lower leagues and foreign leagues of a lesser standard? The reward for producing elite talent is massive so why would every single big club in the world have these academies and spend so much money on coaching, nuturion, analysis etc when they could just loan players to Ross County? I fully believe that loans benefit players. I think Doak should go out on loan however he is totally correct in leaving Celtic to go to Liverpool to increase his chances of getting to the elite level rather than being the next James Forrest (who has made a good living out of football)

It all depends on what you mean by development. Would a young player gain more experience playing at a lower level? Of course they would. Would that experience help them forge a career in football? More than likely yes. However does playing with and against lesser players help you become an elite player? Thats more questionable. My point about Armstrong is that even though he had loads of experience with Utd and Celtic, and yes that experience was what put him in the Scotland side, that the level of experience most likely contributed to him making the mistake against England. Why do players often struggle to make the step up from a lesser league to a better league? Its because everything in the better league is slightly better. Players are fitter, faster, move the ball faster and with more accuracy, more techincal and tactical and punish mistakes. My point being that playing competitive football from a young age isnt the only factor and can lead to bad habits. Foden being kept at City is an example where they didnt want him to learn bad habits. Training with the 1st team and getting the odd minute was deemed a better path to elite level. Im all for loan spells to the Championship etc but one of the main things for a young player is to be in an enviroment where they are given every possible advantage. Big EPL clubs have vast resources. Gilmour talks about things like a dedicated tailored fitness and nutrition plan, individual learning cards highlighting things he needed to work on etc, a weekly DVD showing his performance and comparing movements and things to established players etc. None of that was in place at Rangers because it costs alot of money.

This debate comes uo every now and then with people on one side pointing to the likes of Robertson and Tierney and those on the other pointing at the likes of Fletcher, McTom and Gilmour. Just taking Gilmour as an example, I am convinced he wouldnt even have become a 1st team regular at Rangers. Neither OF team are any good at bringing through youth but Rangers in particular have a horrific record. If you stay in Scotland then theres probably a much higher chance of you becoming a football but imo if you want to be an elite footballer then your chances are significantly improved by getting elite coaching and playing alongside elite people your age and then eventually training and playing with elite players. An example I always give when talking about the importance of playing at a higher standard is somebody like Stuart Armstrong and the mistake he made against England. At that time he was considered to be a very good player. Had something like 125 appearences for Dundee Utd and 60 odd for Celtic under his belt. He was an established football player however the choice of pass he made was a by product of the oppositon he was used to playing against. Losing the ball the way he did would come to nothing 99% of the time in Scotland but in the EPL it gets punished. Only through getting punished do players learn. Im totally convinced that if the same Stuart Armstrong (in terms of talent) had played 50 games in the EPL he doesnt do that pass. Ben Doak might have had 50 appearences for Celtic by now but none of them would have been against defenders of a decent standard. So he looks like a superstar going past people with ease. Until he comes up against a proper defender in Europe or for Scotland and all of a sudden none of the stuff he normally does works.

Ever thought about using EBTs?

How does everybody feel about their teams season so far. Airdrie have slightly exceeded my expectations. I said pre season that I thought we would stay up as we play good football but that squad size might affect us. We have shown that we can give all the teams a game in the division and look to have opened up abit of a gap to 9th and 10th although it can change very quickly in the Championship. Outside chance of playoffs but id settle for mid table and keep building next year.

A few of my mates have moved abroad and loved it. The reason why I havent are things like wanting to be close to family etc but these day to day concerns are largely taken away if you have money. Ie if a parent falls ill you could private jet back in a couple of hours.

I said standard of teams though which is kind of my point. Shankland has never scored at a higher standard because he hasnt proven to anybody in the game that he is at that standard. He moved to Belgium and didnt perform. He has only ever really scored at Scottish domestic level. Adams has scored goals against the best teams in one of the top 3 leagues in the world. If we were purely looking at goalscoring stats then guys like Kenny Deuchar would have got caps back in the day. The level you are scoring at matters and should be taken into account. As I keep saying though, its just one of many factors. One thing to consider though is people are paid loads of money to scout and recommend players. If Shankland is a much better player than Adams then why hasnt an EPL or Championship side snapped him up. It would only take between 3 and 5 million which is buttons to some of these sides.

Anybody can choose random players to suit their agenda though. It is a fact more EPL players have scored international goals than Championship or league 1. I could say Harry Kane scored more than David Healy but that doesnt really move along the debate does it. Better players play in better leagues. Thats common sense. Now of course that doesnt always translate to performing well at international level and isnt the be all and end all. However its a good starting point for judging a players general ability. Adams is a low end EPL / top end Championship level player. Dykes and Shankland are probably mid level Championship players. They all have different strengths and weaknesses though and Clarke will play them in the games / moments that play to their stengths.

If you take the top 10 teams that Adams and Shankland have scored against in the career then Adams record is levels above Shankland Its not fair or accurate to not look at the whole picture. Adams has scored goals against the likes of Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle etc so he has the ability to score against top teams. If anything using this criteria goes against Shankland as I imagine the best he has scored against will be Rangers or Celtic. In terms of starts Shankland is probably 4th choice. In terms of coming on a sub when we need a goal he is 1st choice. For that reason if we only take 3 strikers, he will be one of them and Brown will miss out.

Its not an unusual situation when a club get relegated and a player looks to be moving on. The manager, especially a new manager makes plans without the player so is often not included if the deal breaks down. Generally a manager will want to move forward with players who want to be at the club. If its suspected that Adams will mive in January theres little value in having him start in front of somebody who is going to be there after January.

You hit the nail on the head. Why are other clubs not outraged? Thats not Rangers fault that other clubs just accept bad decisions or incompetence. These clubs should step up their game. Again I stress that how Rangers go about things is wrong. You say the decision isnt even wrong but sometimes its not about the outcome. Its the process to get to the outcome. There is a reason why processes are in place. Checks and balances. On the face of it the ref and VAR have decided that it wasnt a handball. I understand that VAR made this decision very quickly. Ive yet to hear anybody that doesnt think it was a handball. 30 mins later somebody has released the offside pictures. Whether Sima was offside or not is irrelevent if that wasnt part of the decision making at the time. Even if the outcome eventually might have been no penalty. Rangers are entitled to ask for clarity. If the ref and VAR dont think it was a penalty then thats something the ref bosses will deal with. Its similar to the disallowed McTominay goal where the ref seemed to award one thing when in fact it was another. Once everything was cleared up then people moved on. Were Scotland wrong to ask for clarity on that?