Morrisandmoo

Hard to argue with that - he's been class by all accounts.

The consoling point is that I've called the last two referendum's wrong...so the fact I think the next one is un-winnable has to be a good thing 🤣

I've explained this before. It's my belief that the SNP government (and the independence movement generally at present) is entrenching opposition to independence. And that a referendum in the next five years will result in a No vote close to 100% of the time. Sometimes you need to play the long game, knowing that you might win that one, when the short game is a loser. I disagree with vaccine passports and how football fans have been treated more generally by this Government - and have said plenty about it. I am also concerned by the social media communications coming out from the SNP on two fronts: (1) some of their use of statistics in relation to the pandemic is questionable and potentially dangerous - certainly not optimal (2) the constant snarking and cherry picked comparison's to England is uninspiring. But that's got fuck all to do with, and says nothing about, what i think about Nicola Sturgeon. Personally, I think she is one of the best politicians of her generation, a good person and an inspiration in general (particularly to young girls). And I've said as much to her. It is fucking diddy team behaviour to be crowing over a picture with some old American guy (as if it matters) and lording it over English politicians (as if they care). The fact you find the need to react to that observation with finger pointing is one of the reasons why this independence movement is going nowhere. We can't get combative and defensive at the least wee thing.

This prompted a good old fashioned lol from me. Nothing could be further from the truth. But don't let something like truth get in the way of convenient and simple narratives. It's folk like you that makes it certain that we will see another No vote at the next referendum.

Mate it's the opposite. The fact that so much of the output from the SNP relates to comparisons to England (when they can be spun favorably that is) or getting it up English politicians (as if they really give a fuck about Scotland) is the definition of Scottish Cringe. Need to get that small time mentality to fuck.

God the SNP have such a diddy team mentality these days.

You need to balance this against the fact that the immune system itself is leaky and drives "hotter" virus. Yet we evolved immune systems none the less. We got into this arms race with other species long ago. We could have just kept the peace and died quietly. But instead we wake up each day and fight viruses! We are entirely dependant on our immune system to survive. Vaccination is an aid to that "leaky" system. The chicken study doesn't reveal to us a pre-determined destination for the human race and the Covid vaccine. It's just a risk mate. It's a risk with every "leaky" vaccine. It's a risk in a do-nothing scenario. It's a risk with antibiotics (but thank fuck for those). It's also a matter of degrees, rather than being all or nothing. That risk has consumed you and you apply great weight to it. Fine. But for me I balance the great chicken study against all the other weight of science presented to me (e.g. see phart's posts) and infinite possibilities. Including the fact that the virus appears to get "hotter" in unvaccinated groups quicker than in vaccinated groups. Which is obviously contradictory to what you think. Anyway we've been round this loop before - chickens and Joe Rogan seem to be a recurring theme. Your not prepared to listen to others or address contradictory evidence and the chicken study is still the chicken study. So here we remain.

Arnie knows: COP26: Arnold Schwarzenegger angered by world leaders' climate policies - BBC News What a guy. I wonder who are worse communicators - environmentalists or the scottish independance movement...

It might be time. Can we not just have three right backs...O'donnell is too pleasant a human being to drop....

Ralston continuing to make a strong case as to why it might be him, with another goal. Cant see him being overlooked for much longer at this rate.

Rangers' luck will run out. They won't keep getting all these decisions going for them and then there will be tears. Talking about tears, how are the Ayr feeling?

A belter of a celebration right enough.

That's what I meant by indirect or remote. I understand the "point". It's stupid like i said. The cost v benefit analysis doesn't stack up in my opinion. Regardless of what England do, do you honestly think the benefits from the vaccine passport will be large? Or even meanigful?

Also, it's no skin off my nose either. I'm vaccinated and have a passport. The only inconvenience is the risk that I forget it or lose it (I'm a paper man you see). But I had it for the Israel game and I've got it for the Ayr game tonight. The reality is we'll be jumping about a packed pub or terrace before, during and after the game with no social distancing or masks. A piece of paper isn't making that any safer - not really. Some people, stupidly, will be lulled into the security that it does. I don't fancy the stewards chances of keeping anybody out the ground without a passport either. But yeah if you are vaccinated and not a technophobe then it's not a particular drama. It's just a waste of time/money and not very nice to exclude people from society for very little benefit in my opinion

A much more succinct summary

It's not just nightclubs it applies to and not just a specific age range. It also includes adult entertainment venues for example, which is attended mostly by dirty old men And football grounfs and concerts - that are probably quite close to average demographics. Also the point you raise reduces the potential benefit of the passport even further. In that it's mostly older people that die from Covid. If they are already vaccinated (which they are) and it's only youngsters left the benefit becomes more indirect and remote. I am confident in saying, regardless of the reason, that the benefits will be immeasurably small. Do you think the benefits of passports are going to be big? Do you think we'll have significantly better health outcomes than England that will be attributable to passports?

Aye yeah I did - sorry! Everybody should get vaccinated, as often as is necessary, in my opinion. I agree just because a benefit is small doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. For me the cost is too high and we'd be better investing that in other opportunities that would deliver better outcomes (I've given example like screening young people for heart problems). But almost any randomly generated idea would be better than vaccine passports. It's a very bad deal in my opinion.

We need the right measures. Attending a large indoor event with close human contact (like a gig) where 100% are vaccinated (vaccine passport land) vs 95%-100% vaccinated (non-passpoert land) is much the same level of (high) risk. Passports can't make a meaningful difference when you already have high vaccination uptake.

The rationale for opposing vaccine passports, for me, is not basrd on principles, but on effectiveness, proportionality and good policy-making. The vaccines can't provide any meaningful benefit to society and the cost is high (financial/opportunity, societal and impact on minorities). Therefore it is dumb. Because it is dumb and we should know better, it is also unethical. As an aside - I also would support a move towards freedom of movement with zero restrictions. But that is just because I want to be able to turn up two minutes before gettting on a plane.

I personally don't think people necessarily "choose" to make bad decisions or be stupid or be paranoid or be poor- it's more a function of their collective life experience, opportunity and personal capacity to rationalise what good is for them and society. But the rabbit hole on where free will begins and ends is far too deep to get into here! Regardless, as I've said, I don't think it's an acceptable position to just say fuck the (mainly) young, poor, black folk not getting vaccinated -> they can choose to just do what we tell them. It's incumbent on the majority to justify excluding minorities as a proportionate measure. The fact the minority can comply is irrelevant - that is almost always the case and would justify almost any measure.

Covid in Scotland: Hundreds refused entry in vaccine passport 'chaos' - BBC News I doubt it was "chaos". Be interesting how many exclusions were a result of non-vaccination vs poor administration (on the part of the government, the individual or the venue), as 550 seems like quite a lot. Nobody should be surprised at this measure causing confrontation though. It's design is discriminatory and is always going to cause social disharmony. As before, making folk unhappy and/or discriminating against them can be justified where there are measurable benefits to society as a whole. It just so happens that potential benefits are very limited in the case of vaccine passports - despite the incessant repetition from the Scottish Government that the measures are "proportionate". Is anybody testing (or already tested) this measure against human rights legislation?

"hundreds of private companies that have rushed into the Covid testing business, often without any track record of delivering critical clinical tests." At some point we are going to have to come to terms with the massive amount of money that has been transferred from taxpayers to the already wealthy as part of the pandemic. Taxpayer debt has went through the roof, but private wealth has grown considerably at the same time. No good. Raising NI & taxing income is just going to reinforce these imbalances. A workable wealth tax (on individuals and corporations) is needed to re-balance the situation. Labour need to get their finger out and offer some kind of alternative the useless cunts that they are (at the moment).

10/10

😂 I like them both to be fair. I like Greta even more after the rick-rolling.

Aye but all the shite you here is about saving planet earth, environmentalism etc etc - when you are right it's got fuck all to do with saving planet earth (she will be absolutely fine - and prefers it hotter) it's about saving humanity. And the polar bears tbf and to hell with the rest. No cunt is thinking about the crocodiles. I'm only half joking. It is good to buy ourselves some time to invent some technologies to freeze the earth in a permanent cool state to maximise our species survival at the expense of others. And I am, if nothing else, a fan of man. But we need more honesty. It's all very stupid at the moment.