Caledonian Craig

Frankly, I'd be more inclined to question the rationale of the Scottish people if the Tories increase their vote share in Scotland. They are the most untrustworthy party around who will screw Scotland over all over again. What have they done for Scotland? Two halls....sod all and fuck all.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1197010/general-election-2019-polls-tracker-who-win-snap-election-latest-polls-odds Read the comments section here. Depressing. And it just demonstrates how far, politically, Scotland has thankfully drifted from the rest of the UK.

Totally agree. Just like UKIP were - a non-entity. Fingers crossed they take several thousand votes off of the Tories though.

Me? Vote Tory? I'd sooner be strapped down and forced to watch the 1966 World Cup Final on repeat loop.

One thing I would say to your dad Hampden Loon is that a vote for the Tories is a vote against independence. Lets suppose the SNP intend using success at the next GE to say they have a mandate well Westminster tends to prefer looking at vote share. Your dad's vote will be seen as a vote for the union helping to boost unionist part's vote share and working against a push for independence.

Sorry but not going from staunch SNP to Tory. What have those two parties ever had in common? Nothing. What type of political beliefs do they share? Nothing. What type of political policies have they in common? Very little. So why that leap?

It is merely an example of going from the sublime to ridiculous ie going from one belief to another belief on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

I really do not get this. I am sorry but independence should be people's nirvana. Forget about in the EU or out of the EU. Independence gives us the power to choose unlike what we have at present. Without independence then Scotland in or out of the EU is an irrelevance.

To be fair that is a far more logical stance by your mum. To go from beingf a staunch SNP voter to a Tory voter is akin to being a lifelong fan of Celtic and giving it all up to support Rangers.

I do find it hard to believe. After all if it is truly independence you are after then the very last party you'd ever think of voting for are the Tories led by Boris Johnson. Off to clean my hands after typing that name in.

One thing Corbyn has going for him - he has proven before he is good at campaigning. Labour were 21 points behind at the start of campaign for last GE and he ran the Tories very close. There is a chance the same could happen again.

Brexit was going to get done. The SNP do not have the clout at Westminster to stop it. In any case all the SNP were doing was fighting in the corner of the majority of Scots who voted remain. I can't, for the life of me, see how that is anti-democratic.

SNP's antics? Well if that is the case he certainly should not be voting Tory as their 'antics' have been 100 times worse.

Like I have said the polls show the Tory vote share heading only in one direction - up. Brexit will go through on the 31st of January 2020 to much acclaim by the Tories and their vote share will swell further as a result. There is no prospect on the horizon of the Tory support (outwith Scotland) falling so I would see this as a chance to nip in now with a GE to stop Tories ending up with a massive majority as could very well happen if left until after Brexit. The benefit for the SNP is polls are healthy showing they could win 50+ seats giving them something of a mandate for IndyRef 2.

On the other side of the coin the option is? Stumble along in this Hung Parliament with nothing getting resolved on the Brexit front which will most definitely happen. Sure the polls show that the Tories will strengthen their hand in winning more seats but if that is the will of the people then sobeit. The SNP are never going to have any swathe of power anyway in Westminster but a General Election allows the SNP to strengthen their hand on the IndyRef 2 front. Brexit will happen now of that I am sure but it is just a matter of what sort of deal it is. Angus MacNeill is entitled to his opinion but what does he see changing by waiting? The Tories are strengthening their hand all of the time by coming out as the party pushing for what people voted for and that is not going to change by putting off a General Election - if anything their hand will strengthen even more. If we wait and Brexit will happen on the 31st of January 2020 the Tories will claim they were the ones to get Brexit done and their hand gets strengthened again.

The EU has agreed to a flextension until the 31st of January 2020 for Brexit. If a deal is agreed before that then that date can be brought forward. It is all a great mess really. The Tories want a General Election with all polls showing they will increase their seat count and perhaps get a majority allowing them to push through whatever bills they want with regards to Brexit. Labour do not want a General Election until No Deal is off the table and most polls suggest they could lose more seats than they'd gain. The Lib Dems want a General Election but on terms including No Deal coming off the table and agreeing to a People's Referendum (well a GE would be as good as that anyway). The SNP also want No Deal taking off the table but are keen for a General Election as all polls suggest they will gain between 10 to 15 seats in Scotland which they will show as a mandate for Indy Ref2. As I see it an early December election makes sense for several reasons. It will allow voters to voice their opinion on the Brexit situation so would be a sort of People's Referendum. If the Tories do increase their seat count to a point of majority then surely the people have spoken and the Deal on the table will then get passed. If Labour get enough seats and parliament is hung then they can form a coalition government and would have time to put their own plans in to the EU for their own deal. I am certain the EU would be all ears given that Labour prefer a softer Brexit. A General Election would seem the most logical way to break the deadlock at Westminster.

Yes I would say the growing prospect, looking at polls lately, are that Tories will win a majority at the next GE. Corbyn is unelectable and feel tge media has done an effective hatchet job on him so people would sooner vote Tory unbelievably. For the SNP the aim should be to make their mandate to get IndyRef2 and hope the polls are accurate where they will pick up 10 to 15 seats at the next GE.

I think you may have heard wrong. I saw this and believe he was talking about Tommy Wright at St Johnstone.

The only reasoning behind it that I can see of benefit to the SNP is that it will (according to all polls) give them an extra 10 to 15 seats and a chance to prove they have a mandate from the Scottish people for another independence referendum.

We have went over all of this before - the UK has always been an independent country be it in or out of the EU. Have a look at how Ireland have been left to discuss a Brexit deal with Boris for proof of that. The EU never got involved until Leo Varadkaar was happy that a deal could be reached. Whereas, in reverse, Scotland are having no say in discussions about Brexit whatsoever within the UK.

I agree.

Something identical to what Northern Ireland would get in this deal of Boris's.

Well no. It wouldn't have been for the people they are elected to represent. If that had happened Brexit would have happened by now and no doubt all of those Remain voters in Scotland would feel badly let down which would also impact their vote share in Scotland in the long run.

Right so going back to your original point you are suggesting the SNP should (like Sinn Fein) withdraw their MP's from Parliament?

It might not to you but it does to the people of Scotland.